Dice pool system with custom 1-7 range d20.

[Brimstone]

A d20 with numbers ranging from 1-7

A total of six: 4's
A total of four each: 3's & 5's
A total of two each: 2's & 6's
A total of one each: 1 & 7


Then a die pool mechanic similar to d6 Star Wars where each stat has a two dice minimum and 4 dice max.

One die is a wild, where it can explode (7) or count towards a fumble (1).


A player can spend a hero point before an action, and if there are any doubles matches or a straight in the pool results, he can pick up those dice and roll them again adding to his total.  Example: Joe spends a hero point and rolls his 3 dice pool. He gets 2,3, and 4, so he has a 9 so far, and gets to roll all three dice again. Getting a 7 while spending a hero point on either a double or straight results in the wild dice double exploding. So double 7's would be a pool result of 14 plus three more dice to roll after. If the action is successful, he/she keeps the hero point.


Does this seem fair and fun? The doubles and straights Hero point mechanics are sort of inspired how Cthulhu Tech works.

[Adam Dray]

I figured I'd jump in here, because 12 days without a response can be disheartening.

I suspect your post is getting the pass because you've described some weird dice system and asked if it'd be fun.

"Hey, guys, I bought this great new game. Wanna play?"
"What's it about?"
"Well, there's a custom d20 and wild, exploding dice, and..."
"But what's it about? You know, what do the characters do?"

A dice system, on its own, isn't gonna make or break a game. The dice system should support the rest of the game. Some people will say it's the least important part of a game design. I won't go that far. I think it's pretty damned important, but you need to think about a lot of other things first.

If you want to tell us a little more about the game you're working on, I'd love to hear about it. Then we can talk about how this dice system does or does not support what you're trying to accomplish. To start, maybe tell us what the game is about (e.g., "Typical fantasy game, but stone age, so there aren't a lot of weapons and armor, and brawling is way more important!") and what the characters do (e.g., "The characters are members of a Neanderthal tribe trying to survive a human invasion").

Off hand, a game would have to have a LOT going for it to get me to consider playing with a custom d20. Hell, I am iffy about games that use Fudge dice, and you can buy those.

[Adam Dray]

So you have this die: 1 2 2 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 4 4 5 5 5 5 6 6 7. One die has a range 1-7, mean 4.

You could get very similar results with 2d4-1. 2d4-1 has range 1-7, mean 4.

The curves are very similar (your d20 / 2d4-1):

1: 5% / 6%
2: 10% / 13%
3: 20% / 19%
4: 30% / 25%
5: 20% / 19%
6: 10% / 13%
7: 5% / 6%

Sure, d4's can be a pain to work with. My Life with Master speeds up the rolling a lot by tossing out 4's (treating them as zeros for a 0-3 range). That's equivalent to 2d4-2, which has the same curve as 2d4-1, just shifted down 1 step. It's pretty easy and fast to add 1+0+3+2+1+3+1.

Really, you're just looking for a certain curve, right? The actual numbers matter less. Why is the 1-7 scale important to you? Why is that particular bellish-shaped curve important to you?

[Lxndr]

Okay, what Adam is suggesting is great. But if you're wanting this weird-custom-d20-7 die as part of a pool, what Adam suggests might have some annoying handling times. Do you roll your d4 in pairs, then add them up and subtract 1 from each pair? At this point Adam's last questions start to matter - because if it's just the curve you want for each die, Adam gives us great answers. But if you want something different from your mechanic (which is "people roll D2/7 2 to 4 times, then sum the results"), Adam's suggestion ("people roll 2d4-1 anywhere from 2 to 4 times, then sum the results") gets weird in handling.

So why do you want this strange die/structure? It looks like you're imposing an internal bell curve on each unit in a pool - what is your motivation for that?

[Brimstone]

Off hand, a game would have to have a LOT going for it to get me to consider playing with a custom d20. Hell, I am iffy about games that use Fudge dice, and you can buy those.

Thanks all for the responses. 


My thinking is this...

Any number range can be created with a custom deck of cards (pretty obvious). The downside with cards though is the need to shuffle. I was trying to come up with a bell curve number range that could be ported to a dice if desired. The 1-7 range just seems to fit nicely on a d20 and easy to grasp from a mental zen perspective.


One of the best experiences I've had with custom dice stems from the Avalon Hill Superstar Baseball and Paydirt board games. The 3 custom six sided dice produce a range of 10-39.

The black "high die" has a 1,2,2,3,3, and 3.

The yellow die has 1,2,3,4,0, and 0.

The white die has has 1,2,3,4,5 and 0.

The yellow and White were added together for a range of 0-9.



I wanted to try to caputure some of the magic of the 10-39 dice. Your mileage may very on that. Having a bell curve on the dice comes across as a better approach.

[Callan S.]

Hi,

Could you describe some of the events in play when those 10-39 dice had a magic to them? It's okay if it's a board game and it's okay if it's just a one sentence description. Just trying to get a handle on it

[Brimstone]

In Superstar Baseball, first the pitcher rolls the dice. If a result such as K comes up, the batter is struck out and doesn't get to roll the dice. Most of the spots on pitcher cards are blank, so a batter gets a chance to roll the dice. A devasting pitcher like Sandy Koufax has a K on 34 & 35. A pitcher with a BB (Walk or Base on Balls) on a 24 is going to end up putting a lot of runners on base. The number 10-15 have a chance for an OUT result. It just depends on the defensive total of your team.

On the batter card there are a whole bunch of results. A player like Babe Ruth has a HR (Home Run) result on the number 34. Another result might be G+ which means ground out, but the runners on base get to advance.


The nice thing is that each player has their own charts built onto their cards. It keeps the flow of the game moving very fast. It only takes a few games to get the hang of everything (players start to know what 2+ means without having to look at a key). Complete games will be played in about 30 minutes.

Picture of the 10-39 dice.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/56723

Picture of Pitcher (Yellow) and Batter (White) cards.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/55474


The contents of the game box (various editions).

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/18432

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/108595

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/115882

Boardgame Geek forum Review.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/253312

[Erudite]

That sounds like a very interesting dice system. Do you intend on using custom/specialty dice? Or, are you going to try to map out a way to simulate this with standard dice? This system sounds complicated to some degree and I am not sure I fully understand the magic of it.

Also, by looking at the pictures of the game, it appears the board and the cards with the use of charts are what really make this work. Would the players and GM need references like those too play?

In the Superstar Baseball it sounds like each result on the dice has a specific event it triggers. Like a batter getting a home run on a 34. Does that mean the batter gets a home run on just 34? Or, would they get a home run on any total of 34 or more?

Also, it looks like you are basically using a 30 point range. It might be easier to use D30s.

[Brimstone]

Also, by looking at the pictures of the game, it appears the board and the cards with the use of charts are what really make this work. Would the players and GM need references like those too play?

In the Superstar Baseball it sounds like each result on the dice has a specific event it triggers. Like a batter getting a home run on a 34. Does that mean the batter gets a home run on just 34? Or, would they get a home run on any total of 34 or more?

If a player has a HR listed at the 34 spot of his card, then he gets a Home Run on a roll of 34. The 35, 36, 37, 38, and 39 slots will have different results. Sometimes players will have HR listed in several different spots like 26 and 31.

The version of Superstar Baseball I'm refering to is very "chart" light. There are some other versions that work differently. I've played some table-top Baseball games where you roll a d1000 (3 ten sided dice) and consult numerous charts. Superstar Baseball is very rules light in comparison.


A 1-7 range d20 to me could be usefull for a lot of things if you like a bell curve results.

In a rpg system like "Edge of Midnight" where you test both a stat and skill to get a result: both numbers under stat and skill equals full success, one under either stat or skill equals partial success, and no results under equals failure. I could see it being desireable to use a 1-7 bell curve dice in such a system.


Another thing is if like the option of exploding dice and counting fumbles in a dice pool system, by moving to a 20 sided die, the number 1 is only going to come up 5% of the time, while on a d6 it is 16% and 10% on a d10.

I guess you could make a dice pool system using normal d20's and count 1-5 no success, 6-10 one success, 11-15 two success, and 16-20 three success with a natural 20 being considered an ACE explode.