Purchased Sorcerer Supplements

[Aaron]

Hi,

Last Wednesday I purchased Channel Gods and Urge via the Sorcerer website.  I got my authority for Urge latter that day but I haven't head anything at all about Channel Gods.  Checked paypal and the payment has gone through then I just checked my authorization at the Forge bookshop but to no avail.

Whats the next step?  How do I contact the author?

Thanks
Aaron

[Moreno R.]

Hi Aaron!

Scott Knipe goes in this forum with the nickname "hardcoremoose", you can find some information about how to contact him (by icq, e-mail, etc.) in his profile. there

[Aaron]

Thanks Moreno,

Ive just tried emailing his yahoo email.  Hopefully that will get me somewhere.

[Ron Edwards]

So everyone understands: each supplement is fully owned and managed by its author. So for me, that's only Demon Cops. I don't see the money for any of the others, nor get any of it, nor do I receive those orders or manage them in any way. I can contact the authors sometimes, but some of them have fallen out of touch too.

Aaron, if you don't get authorized for a download in the next couple of days, then contact me at sorcerer@sorcerer-rpg.com, as I have a couple of backup ideas.

Best, Ron

[rabindranath72]

Any news on how this went? I too wanted to buy Charnel Gods, so it would be nice to have an update.

Thanks,
Antonio

[Ron Edwards]

Yeah, everything worked out OK within a day or so. The author was away from email for a bit, that's all.

Best, Ron

[Eero Tuovinen]

I've been thinking about this thread, Ron... aren't you somewhat responsible for those mini-supplement sales, regardless of what you say above about not having any contact or oversight in the process? Of course there wasn't a problem this time around, but assuming that one of those authors really disappeared, it seems to me that you'd have a responsibility to refund the customer, considering how the webpage is set up. (The page I'm thinking of is this one on the Sorcerer website; perhaps it's not the one everybody else is looking at.) The page doesn't do anything to explain the nature of the transaction, after all, so from the viewpoint of the customer it seems pretty misleading if they end up paying for a non-existent product at your website. The fact that you know nothing about where their money went seems like neglect on your part in that situation; it could be interpreted that you're running a fraudulent webstore.

I got inspired on this train of thought when you mentioned that you've fallen out of touch with some of those authors. Seems somewhat hazardous to trust in them keeping up their part of the deal in fulfilling these orders when you take responsibility for guaranteeing the sale as the proprietor of the marketplace, so to say. It'd be difficult for the situation to get out of control in a major way in practice, of course, but I could imagine one or two customers getting hurt by a suddenly disappearing designer. Perhaps you should consider making your relationship to the mini-supplement sellers a bit more clear on the sales page so that the customers do really understand unambiguously that you don't have any agreement with those other publishers.

[Ron Edwards]

I have handled that exact issue in my own way on several occasions. It's always been to the benefit of the customer and the details don't concern you or any other outside party.

I don't like the phrasing and presentation on those pages for exactly the reasons you describe. The Sorcerer site was built to be adaptable as I discovered how the programs and activities played out in reality over the years. For a while, that worked. However, at this moment, the software is currently fucked about a dozen different ways. If I could edit the site and repair the broken pages, then I'd certainly change the outdated phrasing about the mini-supplements and a lot of other things, to reflect the policies that have evolved since those pages were published. But at the moment, I can't.

Best, Ron

[Eero Tuovinen]

Yes, updating web pages is annoying, as anybody can attest by looking at mine - simply have better things to do with my time, often enough. If the situation persists after Gencon, when we all have more time, perhaps something could be done about that Sorcerer site as well.

[Ron Edwards]

This is more than merely "annoying." I want you to consider that your post very nearly accuses me of being neglectful, fraudulent, and irresponsible, in just those terms. I do a lot of things regarding Adept Press and role-playing that are profoundly annoying in order to be attentive, honest, and responsible, and I do them nearly every day. If tending to the website were merely annoying, then it'd be done.

The problem is a hard barrier of actual capability. I'm getting frustrated with your lack of acknowledging that.

Best, Ron

[Aaron]

Hi,
Since I started this I thought I should say that I did receive the authorization.   I didn't at any stage think it was Ron's responsibility, that is why I didn't PM him directly, as I wanted to go straight to the author.  It did take about a week but I did get a nice apology email from Scott.

Got to say that I do like the product

Thanks
Aaron

[Eero Tuovinen]

Of course I don't want to imply that you are actually fraudulent or irrensponsible, and of course I believe it when you say that it is actually a matter of capability and not just will to change your website. Still, you have to admit that it's a peculiar situation, as usually people have the technical capability to at least take down websites if nothing else. Not knowing the background, it's easy to infer that you just haven't realized or don't care how the site looks.

Regardless, this is not my business, so no reason for me to be a busybody about it. I was just worried that the site might be interpreted in strange ways by the audience - you seem to be well aware of the issue, so there's no need for me to worry about it.

[greyorm]

...as usually people have the technical capability to at least take down websites if nothing else...

Ron has, in the past, indicated that he's just a caveman who fell on some ice and later got thawed out by some of our scientists. And that our world frightens and confuses him. Sometimes the blinking lights on his computer make him want to get out of his genetic research laboratory...and run off into the hills, or wherever..and sometimes when he gets a message through his e-mail, he wonders: "Did little demons get inside and type it?"

But there's one thing he does know, and that is...he honestly has no clue how this stupid magic box with the lights and beeping noises and clicky buttons really works, as he is not what would be called "technically proficient". Instead, he has bred gene-spliced monkeys to handle the internet for him and they, still being mostly monkeys, are often off eating bananas or throwing poo at the server rack.

(Seriously, Eero, that's a huge geek-centric assumption to make. I know many smart, successful folks who have websites and interact on-line regularly, but still barely know how to turn on their computer, let alone take down/update their site if something goes wrong.)

[Ron Edwards]

Here's a word of advice, Eero, for the Forge and especially for this forum: don't tell people what they "have to admit." Also, inferring things (easy or not) while admitting not knowing the background is an anti-intellectual act that merits no reply or attention from me.

I think this thread is long past its initial aims. I don't mind the essential content of its last phase ("hey Ron, why is the text on your website incomplete?") but I do mind the phrasing and patronizing that seems to be continuing.

The basic problem was to get a product to a customer and that was resolved quickly.

Best, Ron