Having trouble balancing between narrative combat and complex dice mechanics

[youngblood]

Hey Forge,

I just happened to stumble across this site and am very excited to see a living community dedicated to pen & paper rpgs. Kudos to everyone for keeping the hobby going.

For several years now, I have been creating my own game. The story — as it relates to this post — is irrelevant. I am writing this because I need your insights into dice mechanics. First off, I am a story teller foremost, so the technical aspects that accompany dice mechanics isn't my forte.

My goal is to create a system where players can instantly sit down around the table, create a character and instantly start playing. I don't want to burden the players with the rules, only the narrator (what I call the DM, GM, storyteller, etc.). I always found the flaw in some games that the players had to know rules just as well as the narrator. Instead, I want the players to focus more on role playing and less about how the mechanics work.

My initial system is too complex, so I am throwing it out. It basically required the players to have the same knowledge as the narrator.

Instead, I would like to settle into a percentile system.

The way my system is currently set up, is that players have Characteristics (i.e. strength, reflexes, intelligence, perception, etc.) and Proficiencies (driving, computers, acting, investigation, etc.) Much like in White Wolf's system, players add up the required Characteristic and Proficiency in order to determine a number to go off of.

I would like to keep that aspect of the system, but I am having trouble trying to fit a percentile system with it. I want opposed rolls in combat, I know that for sure, but I want it very easy and manageable.

I'm on my knees begging for some technical assistance and will do whatever I can to answer any of your questions that you may need to in order to formulate an answer to my question.

Basically, I'm just looking for some brainstorming of how to include a percentile system into the stat mechanic listed above.

[chance.thirteen]

Um, stat+skill * X=%?

So if you were using the 1-5 scale of White Wolf, where 2 and 2 are considered decent and 3 and 3 is quite good, youd' want a good chance to succeed., so lets say 10% per rating point.

So Joe average has 2 in a stat, and 2 in a skill, 4 total, 40% chance.
Mister talented has 3 and 3, 6 total, 60%.

These sorts of numbers need to have you roll only when its important because failure will be common.


Or you can go all crazy, and say that you rank task difficulty by skill level, and you have a set chance to succeed at a task at your level. This set chance could be 100%, 80%, whatever you think is good. Then the stats add to this chance.

Lets use the same 1-5 scales.

I'll say that you have a 60% chance of succeeding at a task of your level, -20% per level above yours.
Stat rank adds 5% per dot to this chance.

Facing a rank 3 challange, my 2+2 fellow has a 60-20 chance based on his skill, and adds 10% for his stats. 50%
The 3+3 fellow, starts with 60%, and adds 15% for his 3 in the stat. 75%.

I'm just making this up as i type, and it probably shows.

[Luke]

1) If you want simplicity, why does your game have stats and skills?

2) Have you played Risus, Inspectres or the Pool? Try Otherkind, for free on the interwebs, for a different perspective on simplicity.

3) Simplest RPG system ever: whoever rolls higher gets what he/she/it wants.

3a) Percentile sucks for opposed rolls -- too much range between results.

3b) Stat+Skill+Gear/Modifier+percentile roll to generate a result looks good on paper, but see MERP or Rolemaster for the ugly side of those applications.

-L

[whiteknife]

1) If you want simplicity, why does your game have stats and skills?

I was just going to ask that. There's nothing wrong with something much more general than that, especially if your goal is to create a game centered around story telling that is able to be picked up super quickly. Not that I know anything about your system, but if that's your goal than I'd want to make a character in five minutes, tops.

[youngblood]

And that is the rub, after all.

I want my cake and I would like to eat it, too. While I want there to be plenty of technical aspects to the game, I want the dice rolling to not be a bunch of number crunching and modifier-juggling. I guess, I am trying to find a sort of shady balance to build mechanics off of.

[Rafu]

You state you want plenty of technical aspects in the game, but you don't want to burden the players with learning and managing them.
I think a reasonable follow-up question is: why do you want to include such aspects in the game? I expect the answer to impact your choice of dice mechanics (among other things) greatly.

[Wordman]

I think another thing you might want to do is find systems that is close to the one you think you want, then ask yourself why you aren't using them. For example, Unknown Armies uses a percentile system, has a fairly good mix of narrative and gaming crunch and is fairly easy to learn (at least the basic bits). If memory serves, the same could be said of  Primal Order. There could be very good reasons why you don't want to use either of those game systems, but finding out what those reasons are might be useful to you.

[youngblood]

@ Wordman

I actually prefer White Wolf's d10 system over other systems, but I didn't want to just rip it off of them. Isn't there copyright issues with that, lol?

[Noclue]

@ Wordman

I actually prefer White Wolf's d10 system over other systems, but I didn't want to just rip it off of them. Isn't there copyright issues with that, lol?

Surprisingly, I don't think there are any as long as you don't copy any "copy." The system mechanics themselves are not subject to copyright.

[chance.thirteen]

Several game designs produce a diagram where WW is one area of cross over.

Cyberpunk used Stat+skill+roll=result

WW was the first place I saw successes counted per die, other than Luck in the Hero System, but many games do that now.

I would just look at the results a given system creates, either in feel or in statistical results.

[Wordman]

WW was the first place I saw successes counted per die

Shadowrun did this a couple years earlier. I'm sure someone could dig up something earlier.

[youngblood]

Yeah, I was actually quite curious to see what games have used a system like White Wolf's games. Anyone have a list handy?