hmmm

[Ollog Herder]

what exactly was the problem with the magic system?

[Rich Forest]

Hi,

Sounds like a fun adventure!  I’ll be looking forward to seeing the write-up.  My group has played Donjon Krawl a half dozen times altogether now, and we had the same feeling about hitting but not doing any damage.  I’ll throw out our approach, although I’m thinking it might have side effects that some might not be willing to pay:

Instead of rolling:

Attack vs. Defense
Damage vs. Toughness

We just rolled Attack/Damage vs. Defense/Toughness

Basically, we took out some granularity.  Now, obviously I see the things that are sacrificed here, especially in describing how attack successes add to dice rolled for damage and also in defining character/monster abilities.  But boy was it fast, and it nicely sidestepped hitting but not doing any damage.  Also, it sped up the process of creating monsters and NPCs just a little bit, which I’m always for speeding up.

When doing this, we used Vitality as the governing attribute for attack/damage (Vit + skill + weapon damage, where the "skill" refers either to a character's fighting ability or power or natural weaponry or whatever) and Wherewithal for defense/toughness (Whe + skill + armor soak, where skill could be ability to dodge or ability to absorb punishment).  We used Adroitness for missile combat attack/damage.

Of course, there’s another alternative that keeps the granularity of the separate rolls but ensures that a successful attack roll scores damage.  Instead of carrying over attack roll successes as dice for the damage roll, what about carrying over these successes as automatic damage?  This ensures that a successful attack does some damage, and it also makes that damage reflect the number of successes rolled on the attack.  

Just a couple more ideas,

Rich

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

The above two posts were split from Donjon Krawl, first session ever, which had not been posted to since February.

Thing 1: dive into discussion, folks. Lots to talk about with this game; for instance, I have no idea whether Donjon is Donjon Krawl anymore (system-wise, topic-wise, etc).

Thing 2: everyone, please review the Forge policy about posting to older threads.

Best,
Ron

[Rich Forest]

Woops.

Sorry about that: I always "view posts since last visit," and I didn't realize how old the post was.  I did have the feeling that Clinton had already played, however... so I should have been a bit more careful.  

Next time I get deja vu, I'll remember to check the dates.

However, since we're already here: what kinds of things have you changed, Clinton?  I realize that Paladin is first priority right now, but where do the rules stand for Donjon?  Obviously, I'm interested in the final version since we've enjoyed the playtest version so much.  

Rich

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Donjon's closer than you think. The art is being finished up this week, the text is 75% written, and layout should begin within two weeks.

As far as changes go, I finally decided to just tune up Donjon Krawl to fix the problems we had during play. I had this moment where I was listening to everything said about Donjon from several sources, and I almost ripped the guts out of it and started over. Taking a few months away from it to write Paladin was one of the best ideas I've had - it let me really look at the problems we had in play, and in play only.

Some of the major changes:

[*] Improved dice system. Ties are now fun and kind of nerve-wracking. (For Donjon (and Sorcerer) aficiandos, here's what's up. You don't throw out ties - they count as successes for the victor.)
[*] Fixed magic system. The difficulties were just much too high.
[*] No experience rolls. Experience rolls caused a lot of pain and suffering in playtesting. I just hand out experience based on the challenges met, now.
[*] More GMing advice than before.
[*] A bunch of little tweaks that you won't notice until they work like gangbusters.
[/list:u]
Really, that's it. I should have had this thing done months ago, but I think it's a better product because of the extra time taken.

By the way - James V. West has done all the art for it - a tremendous amount. I can't thank him enough.

[Jürgen Mayer]

Sounds good. It won't be finished for GenCon, I guess, and even if it will be ready, the chances of getting a printed copy there are even lower, cause you won't be there, right?

[Rich Forest]

I like the way you're dealing with ties.  We had a lot of them (we were using d10s), and I can already see my players' reactions to getting to use all those high rolls.  I'm sure it also has a nice effect on dealing damage as well.

The other fixes are also wetting my appetite again.  It's great to hear that it's coming along so well!

Thanks,

Rich

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Jürgen,

I only create PDF versions of my games, not print versions.

- Clinton

[Ollog Herder]

have any of these DK updates been implemented on the site itself? i'm curious.

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Ollog,

Nope. Donjon Krawl was my first attempt at making the nutty fantasy game I always wanted, and can be considered the playtest version of Donjon.

What is Donjon?

Donjon is the nutty fantasy game I've always wanted. It's also got great art, and costs you money - probably $10, since this is a big game for me.

Unfortunately, this means that all the updates aren't going to be put on the (free) Donjon Krawl site. However - characters and monsters and such from Donjon Krawl will be completely compatible with Donjon, with only a small amount of conversion.

[Jürgen Mayer]

Jürgen,
I only create PDF versions of my games, not print versions.

I was referring to your comments in some of the earlier Donjon Krawl threads, where you spoke of maybe having printed copies available at GenCon.

Frex this quote from this thread http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1372&highlight=donjon+print

My eventual goal for this is to actually print and sell it.

I had hoped that maybe those plans would still exist. Well, I'll think about buying the PDF...

[Bailywolf]

What is the likely ETA on Donjon?  I'm hip to get me mits on the full version.

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Mid to late August. (Paladin's done as of tonight, so I'm starting Donjon layout Monday.)

- Clinton