Photoshop: Do I really need it and why?

[Seamus]

So I am getting ready to layout my first book in INdesign. Done several dry runs without art. Our illustrations and cover art will be ready soon. People tell me I must use photoshop to put art in my layout. Is this true? Why? Can I just use the images that my artist sends me (which he sets up in photoshop anyways), without using photoshop myself? What are the cheaper alternatives if I really need to use a program like photoshop. Are there any problems I should be aware of when putting art into my INdesign layout?

[reason]

It's not true. Use GIMP. There's probably a fair 0.1% of instances where you'll need to do something that turns out to be easier in photoshop, but you'll never save enough time to make it worth paying for.

http://www.gimp.org

[Ben Lehman]

You should be able to place (File->Place) into InDesign with no difficulty whatsoever.

yrs--
--Ben

[Vordark]

Regardless of what anyone else might tell you, Photoshop is the best choice for image editing software, and will likely be for the foreseeable future.

But...

You almost certainly do not need to use it.  The GIMP is free and it's basically equivalent to the second-to-last version of Photoshop.  There may be some brand spanking new features the latest version of Photoshop has that aren't in the GIMP, but it's unlikely your project will absolutely require them.  The only real gotcha with the GIMP is that it's interface isn't as slick or as intuitive as Photoshop's, but this is less true of the latest version of the GIMP.

[greyorm]

Not to mention, most of the brand-spanking new features found in Photoshop are things only super photo-editing geeks and digital artists will ever really need to use or care about, and even they will never use all the tricks available. You can easily get by on a version of Photoshop from a number of years ago, so not having the latest and newest will really not cause you any harm, as the basic, core features are likely all you'll ever find yourself utilizing (meaning: just because the GIMP is behind the curve, it doesn't matter one bit for your, or most people's, purposes).

[Eero Tuovinen]

What you specifically need an image editing software for is this: you need to be able to change the color spec of the document, you need to be able to resize it, you might need to be able to cut it and you might need to save it in a different format. Last I checked, GIMP can't handle CMYK color files; a stupid limitation, but if it's still in place, the program simply isn't suitable for print-ready layout work in color.

It is theoretically possible that your artist will bring you image files that never necessitate any of these simple procedures: if he knows the file format, image size, color spec and other qualities you need, then in theory nothing would prevent him from sending the files to you ready to use. In that case you would not need an image editor, as you could just put whatever you get directly into your layout.

[Double King]

Photoshop is great.  I hear good things about Gimp.  Keep in mind that if your system software is fine with it, you should be able to find an older copy of PS on ebay with valid serial codes much below retail pricing.  Until Apple mandates i migrate to the newest version of Adobe software, i plan on sticking with the CS3 era products.

[greyorm]

Last I checked, GIMP can't handle CMYK color files; a stupid limitation, but if it's still in place, the program simply isn't suitable for print-ready layout work in color.

That issue has been solved via plug-in for years.

[Seamus]

I decided to go with GIMP, since I am already familiar with it from my old job.

Greyorm: I just downloaded the most recent version, do I need to do anything else in order to get the plug in for the color issue?

[greyorm]

You'll need to download and install it. Link provided for the former, check the directions in GIMP for the latter. (Honestly, though, I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to use CMYK, so I don't know if you'll ever actually need to use it unless your printer specifically requests it or an artist sends you a CMYK file.)

[Carnifex]

You'll need to download and install it. Link provided for the former, check the directions in GIMP for the latter. (Honestly, though, I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to use CMYK, so I don't know if you'll ever actually need to use it unless your printer specifically requests it or an artist sends you a CMYK file.)

I bet you don't know the difference between RGB and CMYK. 99% of everything you print is printed with CMYK. You can't actually print anything in RGB (you could maybe send it to the printer as RGB but it WILL be converted) .

If you plan on making best quality printed stuff you have to be able to work in CMYK. Haven't used GIMP but I doubt I'd be satisfied with it with the high demands for speed and quality that I have.

[guildofblades]

>>If you plan on making best quality printed stuff you have to be able to work in CMYK.<<

It should also be noted that TVs and most printed only show you RGB. And yes, there are usually subtle differences between the RGB and converted CMYK outputs for the sale file. That said, unless you have an art monitor that is showing you the CMYK, then its still probably best if you work in RGB anyways and simply let the printer convert as is necessary for them. All modern digital printers will do that conversion automatically without the operator needing to do a thing.

If exact color tone is highly important to you however, its best you start by getting a graphical monitor that can display in CMYK.

Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Retail Group - http://www.gobretail.com
Guild of Blades Publishing Group - http://www.guildofblades.com
1483 Online - http://www.1483online.com

[greyorm]

I bet you don't know the difference between RGB and CMYK.

...

"I bet..."? Seriously? Oy.

Alright then.

I've been doing design for years. Long enough to know plenty about the differences between additive and subtractive color palettes, long enough to have studied running four-color presses before deciding I wasn't interested, certainly long enough to have had to work with CMYK, more than long enough to know that working with CMYK on an RBG source is still a crapshoot (since one is trying to emulate subtractive color schema on an additive screen, and can't thus get a true feel of the actual values you'll see until one runs a proof), and long enough to know that the majority of printers today convert it for you -- I haven't had a request for CMYK files from a printer in years, even when I ask if they want it. Hence my statement to Seamus about his probably never needing to use it.

If you plan on making best quality printed stuff you have to be able to work in CMYK. Haven't used GIMP but I doubt I'd be satisfied with it with the high demands for speed and quality that I have.

Take a minute here and check what you just said: you "bet" I don't know what I'm talking about, and then state you are making an opinion based on having never actually used the program you are decrying.

Yes, there are some good reasons NOT to use GIMP in a professional setting -- lack of a Pantone color license for spot work (since use requires a fee), less sophistication in the tool-set (as Eero said, second-to-last version) -- though "I've never used it, but I bet it isn't any good" is not one of them. But the chances of Seamus running into any of those issues given what he is going to need and use it for is slim.

But as Ryan notes, the CMYK issue is moot if you don't have a correctly calibrated monitor (and even then, a monitor still can't display the colors of pure cyan or yellow inks as they print because it can't create those tones correctly, and conversely you can't print some of the colors you can see on your monitor as they display, particularly the more luminous shades -- which means you're back to printing proofs anyways, which is what you should be doing). Which is all, I'm thinking, far more design intensive than Seamus intends to get into or needs to get into for an RPG book (particularly if only the cover is going to be in color, and particularly for a small press book).

[Ron Edwards]

Carnifex, you have stepped over the bounds of courtesy here at the Forge. When someone says something you disagree with, it is all right to say so. However, it is not all right to turn disagreements into a status game about superior knowledge.

There is no need to respond to this post or to react to Raven's response (which was courteous). Continue the converation with my moderation in mind, is all.

Best, Ron

[Carnifex]

Carnifex, you have stepped over the bounds of courtesy here at the Forge. When someone says something you disagree with, it is all right to say so. However, it is not all right to turn disagreements into a status game about superior knowledge.

There is no need to respond to this post or to react to Raven's response (which was courteous). Continue the converation with my moderation in mind, is all.

Best, Ron

Im very sorry. I saw that it sounded awful when I had posted it and if I could I would have changed it afterwards.