New RPG project: Of Legends and Legacies

[dmkdesigns]

Hi there!

I've been working on an idea for a little while and wanted to discuss it with other game designers to see if I can get some feedback and better develop the project. My intent is to create a game that has a strong collaborative system of both game and character generation, a Player reward aspect, and the ability to maintain characters with fluctuating power levels within the game with options for exiting and returning as well as a few other ideas in mind.


In this game you play living Legends who are in pursuit of at least one Legacy.

The game world and the Legends are composed of traits I'm calling Arcana (there is a superficial link to tarot here on purpose), which assist in providing meaning, narrative control and help with conflict resolution. I'd like for it to be diceless, however I'm considering dice options as well.

Each person involved, including the GM collaboratively generates six to nine Arcana ideas about the world and character concepts to determine the stories they initially want to tell. Arcana can be people, places, things, phrases, descriptors and so forth as accepted by the group.

Some Arcana are pulled out for game theme uses. I'm currently calling the public ones Seasons and the private ones Elements.

Each Player chooses which Season and which Element their Legend is linked to. Then they choose five Arcana, assigning them to one of the four suits: Mastery, Aspiration, Foundation, Slavery. One of the Arcana must be shared with another Legend for example. The remaining Arcana are returned to the GM for the game world use. These Arcana may be tagged later during the campaign if appropriate.

Then the chosen and defined Arcana are strung together to create a paragraph representing your Legend that includes your name as well. What I want the Arcana to do is to help reincorporate meaning into the game, not to be a gag but to be a narrative game toolset not unlike from some epic poems where key phrases are repeated.

Then you work with that and the GM and the other Players to help design a Legacy for your Legend. Players are rewarded for adding conflict into their Arcana development through points or other methods. The GM can offer rewards in exchange for adding complications. The game has already begun and the Players are off after their Legend's Legacies.

Arcana can shift suits, be sacrificed, discovered through the campaign. Shared with others who may eventually be able to add that Arcana to their Legend.

There may be some kind of "Legend" points used to activate or compel of Arcana similar to the FATE system with Aspects, or 7th Sea Drama Dice, etc. Something I can give to Players who are making the game more fun.

I may include a level of stats that help define categories in general, like Mental, Physical, Social, Will or something more specific to a genre to give people ranks to add to their Arcana, so they would know if their Legend was faster, smarter, etc. compared to others.

Legends may exit the game when they complete a Legacy or should all of their Arcana be lost through sacrifice or other methods. Non-Legend Legacies may be created in response to the actions of Legends, promoting dramatic tension and adding complications to the stories and providing for new Arcana to be added to the game world.

But at its heart is a game system that while isn't for everyone, is one that works to get the Players and GM to collaboratively design a game and their characters with some stories going from the get-go all with fundamental beliefs, goals and personal characteristics linked to the setting and/or other characters.

While I may include a kind of default setting for the game I can see it working for any that is less concerned with task resolution or realistic detailed gaming given the nature of the system and the openness of the Arcana for the Legends and the game world.

Thanks in advance,
-David-

[Mike Sugarbaker]

Hi David, welcome.

Is there some aspect in particular of the above that you'd like feedback on?

[dmkdesigns]

Hi David, welcome.

Is there some aspect in particular of the above that you'd like feedback on?

Yes, thank you.

1. The #1 big question I have is, does what I have written here make sense? If not, what not so I can address that?

2. What about it sounds intriguing or not so much and why? It sounds fun to me but I am trying to find out if it sounds fun to others.

3. Specifically, does anyone have questions on the terms: Arcana, Suits, Seasons, Elements, Legends, Legacies, Void?

4. Questions on the procedures or processes: Character and game creation, campaign maintenance/character advancement, player rewards?

5. Is this too nebulous without a setting to anchor it to? (One is slowly coalescing as I discuss the game for others.)

6. Does the collaborative intent and ability of the game system seem functional?

7. Does the working title "Of Legends and Legacies" work for the game?


-David-

[Mike Sugarbaker]

It's not clear what it means for Arcana to be public or private, so Seasons and Elements are a little opaque. Also I can't tell what "Arcana development" means.

Legacy is more clear but not entirely: it seems like it's some sort of goal or quest, but you're gonna want to spell it out some. Why are there Legacies that aren't tied to Legends?

You've barely talked about procedures, although you have some stats and some FATE-ish ideas, so I don't have thoughts about that yet.

It's not nebulous at all - you've got a clear thematic focus for the game in your four suits. I'm not sure it comes across to me personally as an inviting theme, but compared to other fantasy games at least it's direct: you get what you want through dominance and submission.

I don't see anything here that seems explicitly anti-collaboration, although the picture is still pretty incomplete.

Name is totally unimportant right now. If it works for you, use it.


You're pretty clear on your goals, which is awesome. Can you speak a bit about what's driving you to design this game - that is, what in your play history or other sources inspired you?

[Mike Sugarbaker]

So, on another reading it looks like I may have misunderstood what the suits are about. Are these just markings of how good the character is at something?

[dmkdesigns]

You're pretty clear on your goals, which is awesome. Can you speak a bit about what's driving you to design this game - that is, what in your play history or other sources inspired you?

Sure thing.


Play history: Marvel Super Heroes, D&D (red box), AD&D 2nd ed., Star Wars WEG and d20, Paranoia, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Battlelords, Castle Falkenstein, 7th Sea, Vampire the Masquerade and the old Hunter, Werewolf the ?, Wraith the Oblivion, Call of Cthulu, Toon, Champions, D.C. Heroes, Robotech, Rifts, Runequest, Amber Diceless RPG, Amazing Engine Chromosome, Cyberpunk, Shadowrun (1st, 2nd and when the 20th anniversary book arrives--4th eds.), The Babylon Project, Risus, FATE, Wushu (I've adapated it for Shadowrun called Sprawlshu), Earthdawn, Dogs in the Vineyard, Swashbucklers of the Seven Skies, Bounty Head Bebop and at least a half-dozen one-shots of this and that. Playtested Psi-Run and have an alternate system to run Star Wars in a gritty outer rim play of Fringers (this was before the Force Unleashed book was published) that is working very nicely. I'll be reading My Life with Master and Kill Puppies for Satan soon.


Inspiration for this game: Over the years I've come to desire more from games. Not necessarily more content, though that was an issue early on, but more flexibility and more integration between Players and GMs with the game and their approach to the stories.

    * I want to have more value and meaning shared between PCs and the game world from the get go.
    * I want a game that isn't so much based on strict mechanics for levels of power so that a group could have characters of different abilities work well together regardless of age or training in and of itself.
    * I want a game that can be dynamic or static in the things that matter -- Arcana may serve this purpose.
    * I want a game that plays with open character secrets and info, meaning that characters can have secrets and backstories, but for the fun of all in the group the secrets are known to the group out-of-character via the separation of in from out-of-character information. Otherwise, if the group doesn't know then it didn't happen.
    * I wanted a game that could be stronger than its setting, yet be part of it through the shared mechanics. i.e. Player and GM-shared control of the setting.
    * I want a game that rewards Players for making their characters do interesting/stupid/risky things.
    * I want a game that has a skeleton of mechanics, but is mostly narrative (improvised and scripted options possible) at its core.
    * I want a game that allows for characters to arrive, depart and return to a campaign.

I'll respond to the other great points in a separate message.

[dmkdesigns]

It's not clear what it means for Arcana to be public or private, so Seasons and Elements are a little opaque. Also I can't tell what "Arcana development" means.

Legacy is more clear but not entirely: it seems like it's some sort of goal or quest, but you're gonna want to spell it out some. Why are there Legacies that aren't tied to Legends?

You've barely talked about procedures, although you have some stats and some FATE-ish ideas, so I don't have thoughts about that yet.

It's not nebulous at all - you've got a clear thematic focus for the game in your four suits. I'm not sure it comes across to me personally as an inviting theme, but compared to other fantasy games at least it's direct: you get what you want through dominance and submission.

I don't see anything here that seems explicitly anti-collaboration, although the picture is still pretty incomplete.

Name is totally unimportant right now. If it works for you, use it.

Great.  :-)


My intentions with Seasons and Elements is to have them generated at the same time as the Arcana so as it currently stands they may be viewed as Arcana, which may be why it's unclear. Also, I was using demeanor and nature from White Wolf games to try to help provide a reference to public and private.

I wanted the Arcana to be aspects Players could choose from for their Legends that tie into the game world--themes that repeated. For example, because of the word Season I'll use the names many of us are familiar with for this example: Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter. Each Season would have some kind of short description identifying what it was. The Players would choose one for their Legend, but not as an actual Arcana sorted into a suit. The Season would somehow guide the Players how their Character would publicly behave. A kind of astrological sign kind of thing, Legends born of the Spring Season are Optimistic, Nurture Others, They gain bonuses during Social encounters.

Similarly I wanted the Elements to be like that but more personal to each Player. For example to make up something... Legends of the Sign of Air are thoughtful about their actions, but may hesitate befor acting. They gain bonuses in a scene when they take extra actions before using an Arcana.

I see the Seasons as a set of Arcana that are directly related to game themes/aspects for the campaign and as a result important for all the PCs, the Legends. However, this may be too complicated.


Legacies can be quests/missions. They could be boiled down to accomplishing X things with Y Arcana, or whatever. It's something that I was thinking the Players talk to the GM and possibly other Players about how to construct their Legacy, such as building an adventuring party to avenge a wrong, or steal something back, whatever. But they are meant to be Player-driven instead of GM sponsored.

I was thinking that all the Legacies in this game are tied to the Legends. However, not always created directly or anticipated by the Players. This may or may not work but here goes. For example, if your Legend goes out into the world and does a bunch of things, maybe completes one or more Legacies... there is the rest of the world out there and if the GM or other Players want to create a Legacy that responds to what the Legends are doing. For example, The Legend Arthur goes to win over Excalibur (a Legacy). Along the way he makes some enemies (Arcana). Arthur builds up Camelot (perhaps another Legacy and Camelot is an Arcana) and as a result other kingdoms (Arcana) desire power from Arthur. Enough story elements gather together to make it interesting and plausible and so a Legacy of a different kind is created as the result of the Legends. The Legacy (or in this case the trouble your Legend inherits from doing their thing) comes and attacks the Legend through its agents (Arcana). This Legacy could be put together by the GM or by other Legends (say a Morgana and Mordred).


I think I'll address procedures as they arise since the game idea is still a skeleton.  :-)


The suits are meant to help organize the Arcana. Mastery, Aspiration, Foundation, Slavery. Side note: I'm tempted to have whatever Arcana are placed into the Slavery suit remain in that suit until a related Legacy is accomplished to give it more teeth. It isn't so much that Mastery are your strengths and Slavery are your weaknesses although it could be perceived that way. I say that because I want the Arcana to be positive (virtue/edge) and negative (hubris/flaw) at the same time as well as having both a narrative (narrative control during a scene using this) and mechanical function (+/- for conflict resolution purposes). For Mastery it's something your character has influence or skill or control over be it an army, the voters, a bioweapon, magic, etc. Slavery puts your Legend into a position where they are on the receiving end of that with something be it an addiction, a pledge of honor, familial ties, favorite sword. Aspiration are dreams and goals. Foundation are beliefs and secrets--who/where/what you believe you are now for good or ill.

-David-

[dmkdesigns]

So, on another reading it looks like I may have misunderstood what the suits are about. Are these just markings of how good the character is at something?

So, on another reading it looks like I may have misunderstood what the suits are about. Are these just markings of how good the character is at something?

Arcana are what's important to your character. They would give both a bonus and a penalty depending on a scene and the conflict at hand The way I have it set up is that there may also be tokens or points. I'll call them Legend Points for now that a Player can spend to influence a scene, including by invoking their Arcana if needed. They can also target other Legends if appropriate.

I am toying with the idea of having some kind of stats to cover areas not done so with Arcana be it Mental, Physical, Social, Will or some other format. So with stats the Arcana would be added to them appropriately.

I guess a question I should address is if there should be levels associated with the Arcana, such as Swordfighting 1 vs. Swordfighting 3 or Pet Rock 2 or Able Conman 1 or Haunted Castle 3 and what that means? Does each level provide a math bonus/penalty, does it allow different levels of narrative control during a scene?

Or do you simply add more Legend Points into the Arcana and come up with a plausible explanation for each point spent to ply your case to the group?

-David-

[Mike Sugarbaker]

It's very difficult to answer those last questions, or indeed any further questions, without having some sense of how all this stuff really interrelates. I get the feeling that you don't have a very good sense of that yet, either. It's going to come from getting down to the moment to moment nitty-gritty of what players want, why they want it, and what specific things they do to get it. You've been working at wide angle; it's time to zoom in.

[dmkdesigns]

It's very difficult to answer those last questions, or indeed any further questions, without having some sense of how all this stuff really interrelates. I get the feeling that you don't have a very good sense of that yet, either. It's going to come from getting down to the moment to moment nitty-gritty of what players want, why they want it, and what specific things they do to get it. You've been working at wide angle; it's time to zoom in.

Good points. Thanks for the questions and feedback.

-David-