[Dark Aegis] Basic Task Resolution

[caul]

Basic Task Resolution

The basic system is to roll a dice pool (usually made up of Attribute, Skill, and Modifier dice) against a Target Rank (or difficulty).  Rather than add up all of the dice, only the highest number (the Rank of the roll) and the number of dice showing that number (the Power of the roll) are added together.  Thus...

6d6 are rolled, showing 5, 5, 3, 2, 1, and 1.  The Rank of the roll (highest number rolled) is 5.  The Power of the roll (number of dice showing the highest number rolled) is 2.

The Rank and Power of the roll must exceed the Target Rank of the task to achieve success...

If the Target Rank were 6, then the above roll (Rank 5 + Power 2 = 7) would succeed.  As would a roll of Rank 1 Power 6, or Rank 3 Power 4, and so on.

If the Margin of success is important (such as in combat or to determine the time needed for a task to be completed), then any excess over the Target Rank is considered...

In combat, the excess over the Target Rank (which is actually the total Rank + Power of the defender's roll) determines the amount of Injury inflicted.

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya Caul,

Welcome to the Forge!  Thank you for posting about your game.

You resolution system seems up to the job of resolving tasks.  At the moment I don't see anything that jumps out as me as broken or inefficient.  But it's really hard to evaluate a resolution system all by itself.  Can you tell me a little about your game?  Like what do that characters do and things like that?

Peace,

-Troy

[caul]

To be honest, there isn't really a whole lot going with my game yet save for the name and the resolution system that dawned on me yesterday.  But I've always wanted to write an roleplaying game, and since I haven't had much chance to play lately, I figured I'd give the writing a try.

What I want from the game is a basic enough system that it could be called "rules lite" with a depth of possibilites for all kinds of possible situations.  I know there are a lot of options out there (and I love devouring them as I tend to purchase rpgs, read them, and never play them, though that last bit is unfortunate) but again, I thought why not.

Setting wise, I'm going to go the route that I see quite a bit these days and try to make it as open as possible, such that even the name doesn't get shunted immediately into fantasy, sci-fi, horror or such like.  I would like my system to be useable for any type of game, thus going back to the idea of simplicity and depth.

All that said, though I am a fan of more social games that have bidding and wagering mechanics to foster competition between players, I don't know many personally that would actually play a game like that.  Instead, I plan to make my game more cooperative.

Anyway, as I said, this is all just beginning for me, and all I have so far is what you see above.

Now, your question, specifically.  What do the characters do.

My hope is that I can make a system that allows the players to lead their characters through conflict and story, overcoming uncontested tasks (picking a lock, hacking a security system, etc.) as well as contested conflict (combat, stealth, etc.).

As I said, I'm just getting started, so please bear with me.

For a question of my own.  Should I start a new thread with each aspect of my system as I come up with it, or could I edit the title of this thread and put everything here?

[dindenver]

Caul,
  I want to address this:

Rather than add up all of the dice, only the highest number (the Rank of the roll) and the number of dice showing that number (the Power of the roll) are added together.

Do you HAVE to use the highest number? What if another number is actually more successful? Like you roll 6 5 5 5 2 1, do you have a number of 7 (6+1) or 8 (5+3)?

[caul]

Do you HAVE to use the highest number? What if another number is actually more successful? Like you roll 6 5 5 5 2 1, do you have a number of 7 (6+1) or 8 (5+3)?

That is a fair question and one that I admit I had not thought of, though I am tempted to say that you do not have to, I'm not sure how balanced that will be.

On the other hand, considering what I have been thinking about with regard to the use of Equipment, this could become very important...

I don't know dice probabilities, nor how to work them out, so I can't say at this point.  I'm going to go with you don't have to.

[Dan Maruschak]

As a form of procrastinating I was just calculating your probability distributions (of your initial system, without Dave's suggestion). Do you want me to post some numbers for you?

The rough analysis is that if you roll more than a few dice, your rank+power result is going to be clustered around 6, 7, and 8 (because the more dice you roll the higher the odds that one of them will come up at maximum or close to it). Are the rank and power values going to be important separately, or only as the sum?

[caul]

As a form of procrastinating I was just calculating your probability distributions (of your initial system, without Dave's suggestion). Do you want me to post some numbers for you?

The rough analysis is that if you roll more than a few dice, your rank+power result is going to be clustered around 6, 7, and 8 (because the more dice you roll the higher the odds that one of them will come up at maximum or close to it). Are the rank and power values going to be important separately, or only as the sum?

I would love to see what you came up with.  As far as whether Rank and Power would be important separately, I haven't thought about it much.  According to what I have right now...no.

[Dan Maruschak]

The numbers on the left are the total rank+power. The numbers in the middle are how often that sum occurred in all of the combinations. The last number is the count divided by the total number of combinations, so it's the odds that you'll get that total on any particular roll of the dice.

Code Select Expand


Roll 1d6
  1 :      0 :  0.00%
  2 :      1 : 16.67%
  3 :      1 : 16.67%
  4 :      1 : 16.67%
  5 :      1 : 16.67%
  6 :      1 : 16.67%
  7 :      1 : 16.67%

Roll 2d6
  1 :      0 :  0.00%
  2 :      0 :  0.00%
  3 :      3 :  8.33%
  4 :      5 : 13.89%
  5 :      7 : 19.44%
  6 :      9 : 25.00%
  7 :     11 : 30.56%
  8 :      1 :  2.78%

Roll 3d6
  1 :      0 :  0.00%
  2 :      0 :  0.00%
  3 :      3 :  1.39%
  4 :     16 :  7.41%
  5 :     34 : 15.74%
  6 :     58 : 26.85%
  7 :     88 : 40.74%
  8 :     16 :  7.41%
  9 :      1 :  0.46%

Roll 4d6
  1 :       0 :  0.00%
  2 :       0 :  0.00%
  3 :       4 :  0.31%
  4 :      38 :  2.93%
  5 :    137 : 10.57%
  6 :    319 : 24.61%
  7 :    609 : 46.99%
  8 :    167 : 12.89%
  9 :      21 :  1.62%
10 :       1 :  0.08%

Roll 5d6
  1 :        0 :  0.00%
  2 :        0 :  0.00%
  3 :        5 :  0.06%
  4 :       90 :  1.16%
  5 :     495 :  6.37%
  6 :   1596 : 20.52%
  7 :   3866 : 49.72%
  8 :   1426 : 18.34%
  9 :     271 :  3.49%
10 :     26 :  0.33%
11 :      1 :  0.01%

Roll 6d6
  1 :      0 :  0.00%
  2 :      0 :  0.00%
  3 :      6 :  0.01%
  4 :    207 :  0.44%
  5 :   1718 :  3.68%
  6 :   7534 : 16.15%
  7 :  23197 : 49.72%
  8 :  10803 : 23.15%
  9 :   2759 :  5.91%
10 :    400 :  0.86%
11 :     31 :  0.07%
12 :      1 :  0.00%

Roll 7d6
  1 :      0 :  0.00%
  2 :      0 :  0.00%
  3 :      7 :  0.00%
  4 :    469 :  0.17%
  5 :   5810 :  2.08%
  6 :  34370 : 12.28%
  7 : 134015 : 47.87%
  8 :  75622 : 27.01%
  9 :  24319 :  8.69%
10 :   4733 :  1.69%
11 :    554 :  0.20%
12 :     36 :  0.01%
13 :      1 :  0.00%

Roll 8d6
  1 :      0 :  0.00%
  2 :      0 :  0.00%
  3 :      8 :  0.00%
  4 :   1052 :  0.06%
  5 :  19344 :  1.15%
  6 : 153346 :  9.13%
  7 : 754472 : 44.92%
  8 : 500990 : 29.83%
  9 : 194553 : 11.58%
10 :  47603 :  2.83%
11 :   7473 :  0.44%
12 :    733 :  0.04%
13 :     41 :  0.00%
14 :      1 :  0.00%


[caul]

So from what I can see, the idea of Rank & Power works fairly well, keeping most rolls as pools get larger around 6-9, with 7 and 8 being most common.  I can live with that.

What I am still wondering about is whether I should allow the player to select the Rank of their choice if a lower Rank roll has more Power...

Perhaps I can work both Rank requirements and overall Power requirements into difficulty somehow...

[Troy_Costisick]

So from what I can see, the idea of Rank & Power works fairly well, keeping most rolls as pools get larger around 6-9, with 7 and 8 being most common.  I can live with that.

What I am still wondering about is whether I should allow the player to select the Rank of their choice if a lower Rank roll has more Power...

Perhaps I can work both Rank requirements and overall Power requirements into difficulty somehow...

It's been my experience that players really like it when the rules give them the greatest amount of flexibility and choice.  I'd advise going with the option that supports choice and flexibility for your game.  Playtesting will show if it's too powerful, but I don't think it will be.

Peace,

-Troy

[Dan Maruschak]

So from what I can see, the idea of Rank & Power works fairly well, keeping most rolls as pools get larger around 6-9, with 7 and 8 being most common.  I can live with that.

Whether it works well or not is really dependent on what you are using it for. For example, you mentioned modifier dice in your first post. Are these modifier dice incentives for specific player behaviors (such as the "detailed description" bonus dice in Sorcerer, or the acting in-character Aspect bonus in FATE)? If so, you want to make sure that there is a big enough difference in the probability curves with and without the bonus so that earning the bonus feels worthwhile to the player. If the 5d6 curve isn't very different from the 4d6 curve, then there's not much incentive to do something to earn a bonus die when you already have 4d6. Of course, whether the differences feel big enough is a question for you as a designer (and for playtesting).

Perhaps I can work both Rank requirements and overall Power requirements into difficulty somehow...

To me, it seems like kind of a waste to generate two different numbers from your dice but then immediately collapse them into a single number again. There are probably lots of interesting things you can do with your numbers besides just adding them together, so it would probably be worthwhile for you to brainstorm and examine a bunch of ideas before settling on any one relationship.

It will probably also help if you try to put your resolution mechanism into a broader design context. Figure out answers to questions like: Are the target numbers GM generated? If so, is it based on some kind of game mechanically mediated budget or rule, or just GM's intuition? How often are the players facing static difficulties vs. rolling against opponents? How many rounds do you want a typical conflict/combat to go? Things like that will help determine how well the mechanic will work in practice. Few mechanics are intrinsically good or bad, what matters most is how you use them.

[caul]

It's been my experience that players really like it when the rules give them the greatest amount of flexibility and choice.  I'd advise going with the option that supports choice and flexibility for your game.  Playtesting will show if it's too powerful, but I don't think it will be.[/quote]

Yes, I've been thinking along those lines as well.

Whether it works well or not is really dependent on what you are using it for. For example, you mentioned modifier dice in your first post. Are these modifier dice incentives for specific player behaviors (such as the "detailed description" bonus dice in Sorcerer, or the acting in-character Aspect bonus in FATE)? If so, you want to make sure that there is a big enough difference in the probability curves with and without the bonus so that earning the bonus feels worthwhile to the player. If the 5d6 curve isn't very different from the 4d6 curve, then there's not much incentive to do something to earn a bonus die when you already have 4d6. Of course, whether the differences feel big enough is a question for you as a designer (and for playtesting).

I'm playing with character creation now, and thus trying to determine where all of these d6s actually come from.  Hopefully as I nail down how the character is defined, I'm be able to mold my system idea to that in more detail.

To me, it seems like kind of a waste to generate two different numbers from your dice but then immediately collapse them into a single number again. There are probably lots of interesting things you can do with your numbers besides just adding them together, so it would probably be worthwhile for you to brainstorm and examine a bunch of ideas before settling on any one relationship.

I agree, and I really love the idea of Rank & Power, and so I will do as you say and brainstorm a bit more.

It will probably also help if you try to put your resolution mechanism into a broader design context. Figure out answers to questions like: Are the target numbers GM generated? If so, is it based on some kind of game mechanically mediated budget or rule, or just GM's intuition? How often are the players facing static difficulties vs. rolling against opponents? How many rounds do you want a typical conflict/combat to go? Things like that will help determine how well the mechanic will work in practice. Few mechanics are intrinsically good or bad, what matters most is how you use them.

In my mind right now, here are the answers to the above questions.  This of course may change as I fiddle with the system more and determine what makes up characters.

Target Numbers are GM generated based on intuition and hopefully a simple table (ala Risus, FATE, etc.), or they are generated by opposed rolls.
Static Difficulties are used for every situation where the players act on the environment.  Opposed Difficulties are used for every situation in which players' characters act against other characters.
I would like combat to be quick and yet still tactical in some ways without the need for miniatures, maps, or counters.  I have some ideas for this already.

And I want to say now thank you for everyone who has and will post with thoughts and direction.