"realistic" HTH/Melee Combat system

[uchimatamaster]

Hey guys, I just found this forum and am wicked excited about it.  So on to the questions/comments...
I have a combat system that I created based on percentiles from real world experiences and lots of studies.  It is based on a "choice of attack", Base Attribute, Roll, and level where the choice of attack send the GM to a separate chart for the result resolution, then the base attribute and level are figured into a mathematical  formula which results in " Base Skill" which then is added to a percentile roll VS. the same for another PC or NPC.  Where the difference between the two is compared on the chart of "choice of attack". 
I guess my question is this, any ideas or has anyone seen this kind before, and would anyone like to get a toned down version to try out themselves.  I had originally worked it out for a UFC style of combat and worked it back for "realistic game play" so go from this.  Thanks all

[greyorm]

"The Riddle of Steel" isn't quite that detailed, but it does boast to be the only combat system vetted by professional sword-fighters and fencers. There's a long out-of-print game called "Phoenae" that had, as I recall, a horribly complex combat system: the writer used the fact, as a selling point, that you could out for a smoke and have a bathroom break while the GM worked out the results of a combat strike because everything was so detailed.

So, questions regarding your game. How long does it take to resolve one strike? One combat round between two opponents? Between multiple opponents?

[chance.thirteen]

Does Choice of attack cover things like location hit, or options on power of attack, or perhaps things like a lighter attack with reduced chances of parry or being elft open to a counter attack? Does it guarantee one result, or does it provide access to a range of results.

Waaaay back in college a friend of mine named Collin, who had trained as a fencer a martial artist and as a hunting archer and marksman made up a fighting system. It was actually fairly simple, but the feel of it was conveyed in that you varied skill levels got you past various layers of defenses, making your hits more and more certain to be solid, where you wanted, and without as much risk from counterstrike. So ther is something to be said for carrying the feel you want to carry, but in a simple to resolve way.

[uchimatamaster]

How long does it take to resolve one strike?  Since the average strike in my studies and tests (I've got a few buddies and myself who are in the martial arts) is around 2.4 seconds(kicks/punches from a standing position), jumping kicks/throws (from wrestling, Judo, Aikido, and jujitsu) takes on average 7 seconds, and tie ups take about 4 seconds.  I've decided an 8 second "round" where a takedown/throw or 2 strikes or defense and strike or 2 defensive maneuvers or a tie up/strike or tie up/choke or tie up/lock, etc.... will take the full round.  The resolution is based off of charts so just a roll(random) and a check on the chart gives the result.   Melee/weapon combat is still based off the 8 seconds with certain weapons needing the full 8 seconds to strike (heavy warhammer) or many strikes (foil/fencing sword).

[uchimatamaster]

QUESTION: Does Choice of attack cover things like location hit, or options on power of attack, or perhaps things like a lighter attack with reduced chances of parry or being elft open to a counter attack?
ANSWER: YUP!! it can in the "advanced" section of the combat but in the basic it just covers-kick, punch, grapple, throw, takedown, tackle, defensive position, jump kick/hit, close the distance, tie-up
QUESTION: Does it guarantee one result, or does it provide access to a range of results.
ANSWER: I give many results based on the result attempted and on how far up the chart the roll result gives.  ie. if your trying to knock someone unconscious it requires a higher success, so the higher the success on the chart the more options to choose from.

[Seamus]

Hi uchimatamaster: Wow, this is a topic that launches several debates at my own gaming table. I have expereince with boxing, muay thai, some MMA, and TMA (way back when). I would be happy to look at what you have, and give you feedback, if you wan't another pair of eyes.

From a design stand point are you shooting for complex or fast pace? I ask because based on your OP, it seems like it might be a little on the complex side. Have you considered including something to factor in general fighting style or approach (not the brand of martial arts but stuff like Counter Attack, Defensive, Offensive, etc). Also, do you want the game to capture each and every attack and defensive manuever on a 1 to 1 basis, or do you want to simulate the overall feel of combat?

I think the most important thing to work out before you really get into design is whether skill or natural ability is most important. Are you going to do a straight 50/50, in terms of effect, or will it be more subtle? Also, if you are going for realism, how much will body type (size, height, etc) effect different moves? For example I can see being big help you dish out and take lots more damage, while being slender might help you with accuracy and speed (at least for striking).

Finally, what kind of Hand to Hand combat are you trying to simulate. You mention UFC; does this mean you are going for modern MMA? Or did you have something else in mind?

[uchimatamaster]

Good frickin questions Seamus....I've hopefully designed a system that can be complex if wanted, for a blow-by-blow UFC style fight or a "real world" combat system that is fast paced but gives semblances of realism to it,  I have looked at size, Attribute and Skill level for the BBB (Blow-By-Blow) and just Attribute and skill level for the faster paced RPG game.

[Seamus]

This sounds like an interesting project. I am curious to see how things progress.

[uchimatamaster]

Interesting?  LOL yeah you could say that..  I've been tweaking it for about 15 years now.

[greyorm]

How long does it take to resolve one strike?  Since the average strike in my studies and tests (I've got a few buddies and myself who are in the martial arts) is around 2.4 seconds...

I apologize for being unclear: I meant how long do the mechanics of a strike take the players to resolve, not "how long is a round".

That is, if I'm sitting at your table playing your game and my character throws a punch, how long does it take the people at the table to determine what happens? How many choices do we make, how many dice do we roll, how long do the calculations take and what is involved in them (addition, subtraction, long division, algorithmic charts, etc)? For combat between two people? For combats between multiple opponents?

[chance.thirteen]

Did you plan on an unequal rate of actions?

I currently, when thinking about playable realism, think it should all be equal turns, with traits like "very fast" giving an edge, but not more actions. For instance a very fast person might be harder to parry, or might recover from an off balance position faster. Likewise, speed is related to fatigue, so perhaps unlike a skill bonus a speed based bonus could be reduced over time.

[uchiaway]

Hey guys, I'm unable to log in with my original handle that i use at home so hope its ok to use this one.

I apologize for being unclear: I meant how long do the mechanics of a strike take the players to resolve, not "how long is a round".

That is, if I'm sitting at your table playing your game and my character throws a punch, how long does it take the people at the table to determine what happens? How many choices do we make, how many dice do we roll, how long do the calculations take and what is involved in them (addition, subtraction, long division, algorithmic charts, etc)? For combat between two people? For combats between multiple opponents?

Gotcha, With the charts I've worked out the time was greatly reduced to the following steps.
1.) PC chooses basic Maneuver
2.)GM figures defense for chosen manuever
3.PC rolls dice and adds results to Skill BASE, Situational modifier, MA Mod, and Specialty Mod.
4.) GM rolls NPC and adds to NPC DEFENSE, SITM, MAM, SPECM.
5.) numbers are compared higher wins out which is read from the chart the "attacker" had chosen.
Basically, each "maneuver" lasts about 20 seconds with a competent GM who has the charts in front of him/her.

I am working on getting the charts together in one format

[uchiaway]

Did you plan on an unequal rate of actions?

I currently, when thinking about playable realism, think it should all be equal turns, with traits like "very fast" giving an edge, but not more actions. For instance a very fast person might be harder to parry, or might recover from an off balance position faster. Likewise, speed is related to fatigue, so perhaps unlike a skill bonus a speed based bonus could be reduced over time.

Yes, all combat is based on unequal rates of action.
being a compatative Judoka I have seen those that fight with a 'faster pace", while some are the lumbering methodical hulk.  Some manuevers are qicker than others, a punch is faster than a sweep, a jab is quicker than a haymaker, a hook is quicker than a spinning back kick.  Taking this into consideration using a set time (8 seconds) as a base then letting you use the skills the CHR has to fill those 8 seconds with as many maneuvers as possible.  I've trained with some MMA types and laugh as a guy is taken down but he punches the attacker repeatedly in the time used for the takedown.  or think of the UFC fighter shooting in and his opponent missing with a punch then following up with a knee to the face in the same amount of time.
I use, also, "perks" that could give bonuses to speed and they are in areas of bonuses to strike or initiatives as they perk is described.
As for speed relating to  ones energy, true that, but this mechanic slows down RPG combat waaaaaaaaaaaay too much.  I've designed this combat to be realistic with damage so that it usually only lasts about 6 rounds before someone gets their bell rung/arm broken/choke applied.

I also seem to think that you guys are going in the direction that I've made the combat for the player to have to suffer through "realism" checks, when my system should have taken the hard checks out of the game but still giving a realistic view of HTH combat.

[chance.thirteen]

Eh, I just thought fatigue was a major consideration in fighting. I certainly got tired in longer fencing matches, and I see it happening in boxing. It's not necessary though.

[uchimatamaster]

Eh, I just thought fatigue was a major consideration in fighting. I certainly got tired in longer fencing matches, and I see it happening in boxing. It's not necessary though.

It is!! Don't get me wrong.  Before a tourney I'll increase cardio to help out, but, the tourney style of fighting is different in comparison with a HTH/Self defense style of combat where adrenaline, fear, and aggression keep the fighters going till one is hurt.  SO, I chose to remove the actual fatigue checks and went with a "Threshold check".  When the HP of the PC reaches a certain level from damage, it does affect the rolls.  This I believe could be compared to your need for fatigue.  ie.  CHR has 80 HP will have it's first threshold at 25%, then 50, then 75 and finally at 90%  at each threshold a consciousness check is rolled to determine if the damage received will either not matter to the CHR or could in the extreme casue the CHR to pass out.  Is this what your looking for?


To those who sent me messages asking about the system being sent to you, I'm cleaning it up so give me a day or two.