Feedback needed for firearms mechanics

[Ar Kayon]

Basic Ranged Combat Mechanics
Since there are more random elements for firearms involved in determining success, the standard d4-1 exploding randomizer is always used.

<Burst Fire Options
Short Burst
Fire 1d4+1 rounds (2-5), or 3 if the weapon has a 3-round burst option. Your attribute comparison is for the entire burst and is not compared for each individual shot. You receive a bonus of +2 to hit with a short burst. This shot is also more deadly because the bonus will make it more likely that you will score the maximum gradient of success.

Medium Burst
Fire 1d4+3 rounds (4-7) for a +3 bonus but a penalty (-1) to the gradient of success. Therefore, you are more likely to score a hit, but because it's harder to control larger bursts, the quality of your hit will be poorer. 

Long Burst
Fire 1d4+5 rounds (6-9) for a +4 bonus, but your hit quality is poorest, at -2.
Note: Therefore, in most situations, it is wisest to fire short bursts. This seems to be the case in real life. Take note that the rounds fired are the base number, and will change with weapons with differing rates of fire.


Spread
For every square you threaten, you suffer -1 to your attack. Short burst can threaten 2 squares total, 3 squares for medium and 4 squares for long.

1.  Roll for shots fired.
2.  Calculate your base attribute by applying the randomizer for each target.
3.  Apply burst, spread, and environmental modifiers.
4.  Determine effect.

[whoknowswhynot]

I really like the way damage is handled with this system.  The idea for multiple zeros for severity of failure is really cool too.  I am definitely not too knowledgable when it comes to combat, but maybe the first 0 should be a freebie.  Also, maybe consider instead of things like dud rounds, a critical failure like a miss that ricohcets or better yet, endangers allies or gives away position.  Maybe all the 0s add up and at like 4 or something the gun jams unless you clean it or something.  Also, maybe the 0 could mean that the attempt left you vulnerable trying to aim the weapon or something.  I hope this helps!

[Ar Kayon]

I didn't even consider the potential for a ricochet!  Damn - that means more research!  That reminds me: there was a news story around two weeks ago about 3 cops who were attacked by a dog.  One cop pulled out his gun and shot the dog, but the round ricocheted, grazed another cop in the face and then hit ANOTHER cop somewhere around the shoulder.  It was bizarre, to say the least, but I suppose these things happen.

I'm probably going to have to mess around with the critical failures anyway, but I'm not going to be certain what to do with them until I playtest.

[Ar Kayon]

Link to core Nevercast thread

[Ar Kayon]

My rough-draft ideas for gunfire/projectile response options.

[Callan S.]

Hi,

We play these games for fun...and there obviously isn't just one type of fun - there are many different and nuanced types of fun. Could you describe what would ideally be happening amongst the people - like what sort of fun they'd be having as the go through each step of working it out? Even if some steps aren't fun, list the ones that are and the fun that ideally would be involved. It might be anticipation fun, or imagining the minute details of it vividly fun.

I mean in the end, it's not the realism that matters - it's that the realism produces some kind of fun, right?

[stefoid]

How about: for each point of damage player applies an extra adjective/noun to the effect?

So 1 pt of damage = graze
2 pts of damage = deep graze
3 pts = heavily bleeding wound
6pts = splintered bone jutting -- mangled bloody limb
etc...

you could have some fun with that!

[Ar Kayon]

Hi,

We play these games for fun...and there obviously isn't just one type of fun - there are many different and nuanced types of fun. Could you describe what would ideally be happening amongst the people - like what sort of fun they'd be having as the go through each step of working it out? Even if some steps aren't fun, list the ones that are and the fun that ideally would be involved. It might be anticipation fun, or imagining the minute details of it vividly fun.

I mean in the end, it's not the realism that matters - it's that the realism produces some kind of fun, right?

[Ar Kayon]

How about: for each point of damage player applies an extra adjective/noun to the effect?

So 1 pt of damage = graze
2 pts of damage = deep graze
3 pts = heavily bleeding wound
6pts = splintered bone jutting -- mangled bloody limb
etc...

you could have some fun with that!

[Adam Dray]

	Logged

Adam Dray / adam@legendary.org
Verge -- cyberpunk role-playing on the brink
FoundryMUSH - indie chat and play at foundry.legendary.org 7777

[Ar Kayon]

Realism:

GM: A dude lifts a TDI Vector and fires a large burst at you.
Player: *rolls* I piss myself and stand there, frozen with fear.
GM: *rolls* It's okay. He totally misses, partly because he didn't actually want to shoot anyone. He's just scared, too. He runs away.
Player: I run away, too.

You make an excellent, albeit wise-ass point!  Fear and composure play a large role in the mechanics, and the more inexperienced you are, the lower your composure score is and the more likely you are to suffer the "fear" and "frozen" effects.  I haven't fully fleshed out the mechanics yet, but the GM will assign a value of fear relative to the situation.

So, let's say you're well outnumbered, and the GM assigns a fear value of 4.  However, your character is quite skilled and experienced (composure of 4), so he isn't affected.  Some unskilled average joe, who has a composure of 0, allows the fear value to pass by a +4 gradient of success, which means he suffers the "frozen" effect.  On the other hand, a scrappy punk may have a composure of 2 (+2 gradient of success for fear check), which means he suffers the less severe "fear" effect.  So this guy is shaking a bit, but the adrenaline is pumping (bonus to strength and others, penalty to dexterity and others, etc.) and he's ready to either fight back or run away.

[dindenver]

RK,
  I noticed you included knockback in your list of effects for firearms. It is important to know that firearms cannot actually exert knockback force on their target. They proved this on Mythbusters (last year I believe).

[Ar Kayon]

Shotguns were part of the "blast" attack type, and not other firearms.  However, upon further investigation, it seems that shotguns do not have the kind of energy to ellicit such an effect.

Thanks for pointing that out.  Research has been a royal pain in the ass for this game.

[chance.thirteen]

Guns have a simple reminder for knock back: the firer experiences just as much force, though spread along the butt or grip of the weapon. So if it doesn't know you back firing it, it won't knock someone back who gets hit by it.