Feedback needed for firearms mechanics

[Ar Kayon]

Basic Ranged Combat Mechanics
Since there are more random elements for firearms involved in determining success, the standard d4-1 exploding randomizer is always used.

So, let's say Lu Ordin is firing his shotgun at an opponent 18 yards away, who also has good cover. The opponent's passive defense of 6, plus the cover (, plus the range penalties (10) requires an 11 total attribute minimum to score a hit. Lu Ordin has a 6 focus, so his total attribute check is  6 + 1d4-1. His first shot (1d4-1 = 2) is an 8, so he misses. He shoots again, but spends a combat action to aim the shot (1d4-1 = 3, exploding adds 1d4-1 = 2 + 1 for aim = +6) which comes out to a 12 total attribute check. Since the shot passed by a gradient of 2, the effect is moderate, which for a shotgun means that the opponent suffers the "profuse bleeding", "damaged", and "knockdown" effects.  This is assuming the opponent isn't wearing armor.

One of the reasons why I incorporated the randomizer into all firearms is to account for critical failures. For example, if you roll a result of 0 (a natural 1), you must roll again. If the next result is 0, you roll again, and so on. The amount of zeroes is equivalent to the severity. For example, double zeroes is a dud. Triple zeroes is a jam, like a bullet wasn't loaded into the magazine properly. Quadruple zeroes is a weapon failure. If my math is correct, your chances of failure are 1 in 16 for a dud, 1 in 64 for a jam, and 1 in 256 for a complete failure. Probably not true to life, but they sound like reasonable numbers for a game simulation. Of course, not all firearms are equal. Loosely machined weapons like the AK-47 will have a lower rate of failure, as well as simpler weapons, like revolvers.  Take note that in this post-modern setting, it's not likely combatants will possess new, well-maintained or high-quality weapons.


Burst Fire Options
Short Burst
Fire 1d4+1 rounds (2-5), or 3 if the weapon has a 3-round burst option. Your attribute comparison is for the entire burst and is not compared for each individual shot. You receive a bonus of +2 to hit with a short burst. This shot is also more deadly because the bonus will make it more likely that you will score the maximum gradient of success.

Medium Burst
Fire 1d4+3 rounds (4-7) for a +3 bonus but a penalty (-1) to the gradient of success. Therefore, you are more likely to score a hit, but because it's harder to control larger bursts, the quality of your hit will be poorer. 

Long Burst
Fire 1d4+5 rounds (6-9) for a +4 bonus, but your hit quality is poorest, at -2.
Note: Therefore, in most situations, it is wisest to fire short bursts. This seems to be the case in real life. Take note that the rounds fired are the base number, and will change with weapons with differing rates of fire.


Spread
For every square you threaten, you suffer -1 to your attack. Short burst can threaten 2 squares total, 3 squares for medium and 4 squares for long.

1.  Roll for shots fired.
2.  Calculate your base attribute by applying the randomizer for each target.
3.  Apply burst, spread, and environmental modifiers.
4.  Determine effect.

[whoknowswhynot]

I really like the way damage is handled with this system.  The idea for multiple zeros for severity of failure is really cool too.  I am definitely not too knowledgable when it comes to combat, but maybe the first 0 should be a freebie.  Also, maybe consider instead of things like dud rounds, a critical failure like a miss that ricohcets or better yet, endangers allies or gives away position.  Maybe all the 0s add up and at like 4 or something the gun jams unless you clean it or something.  Also, maybe the 0 could mean that the attempt left you vulnerable trying to aim the weapon or something.  I hope this helps!

[Ar Kayon]

I didn't even consider the potential for a ricochet!  Damn - that means more research!  That reminds me: there was a news story around two weeks ago about 3 cops who were attacked by a dog.  One cop pulled out his gun and shot the dog, but the round ricocheted, grazed another cop in the face and then hit ANOTHER cop somewhere around the shoulder.  It was bizarre, to say the least, but I suppose these things happen.

I'm probably going to have to mess around with the critical failures anyway, but I'm not going to be certain what to do with them until I playtest.

[Ar Kayon]

Link to core Nevercast thread

[Ar Kayon]

My rough-draft ideas for gunfire/projectile response options. (All responses require that you are actually aware of the attacker.  For example, if a sniper is shooting at you, you may not use a response.)

1. Response attack - the same speed vs. speed comparison to see who attacks first.  However, since ranged attacks are based upon the focus attribute, compare focus vs. passive defense once it is determined when opponents attack.  You may also use a strike to respond if you are within range.

2. Dash - based on reflex, use the dash combat movement to hastily jump out of the way as your opponent is about to attack. 

3. Take Cover - based on reflex, adding the cover's passive defense bonus to your attribute comparison.  Cover must be no more than (a combat step?) away from you.  If you are immediately by cover, then no action use is required, provided that you have actions remaining.  You may also drop prone to the ground.

4. Run - based on speed, run out of the way (using the run combat movement) before your opponent attacks.  If you are already running when your opponent attacks you, then the attack is compared against your Passive Defense +3, or you may add a dash response on top of that (reflex + passive defense bonus compared instead), or you may use Concentration or an extra combat action to change direction (randomizer applied).  I haven't decided on whether or not changing direction on your turn requires an extra action, however the change will nullify any bonuses that your opponents receive if they are aiming at you.  (Note: skilled attackers may be able to follow you with their aim while you change directions.)

5. Grab - based on dexterity, if you are within range you may try to grab the opponent's arm/wrist/etc in order to prevent the attack.

6. Dodge - based on agility, you may only attempt to dodge a muscle-propelled weapon.  (Skilled technique only) - you may use your agility to dodge the line of attack for all ranged attacks, including gunfire, before the attack is made, which requires an immense amount of concentration (agility +3 bonus).  Counterattack bonus if you are using a ranged attack or if you are within range for a melee attack.  At higher skill, concentration use is decreased and you may add a free combat step.

Notes:
* Single-handed shooting has an attack penalty based upon the particular gun you are using, as they all have different amounts of recoil.  A .22 may only penalize your attack by 1 point whereas a .44 magnum may penalize by 3 and cause you to drop the weapon on a critical failure.  The benefit of shooting one-handed is firing from a profiled stance, which improves your passive defense score, or shooting two guns at once (not terribly effective, despite what movies would like you to think).

* Changing directions while running on your turn may only cost an action to characters who have an agility score less than 8.

* You don't actually dodge bullets.  An extremely skilled combatant dodges the line of fire when the opponent is about to shoot (typically only players who choose the Master profession will have this technique available to them, as their internal arts training provides them with the prerequisites).  Take note that training methods in Nevercast are superior to existing real-world methods, thus combatants may reach much higher levels of skill.  This is because combat training has been heavily institutionalized and has had more years of scientific research devoted to it, funded primarily by militant technology cults.

[Callan S.]

Hi,

We play these games for fun...and there obviously isn't just one type of fun - there are many different and nuanced types of fun. Could you describe what would ideally be happening amongst the people - like what sort of fun they'd be having as the go through each step of working it out? Even if some steps aren't fun, list the ones that are and the fun that ideally would be involved. It might be anticipation fun, or imagining the minute details of it vividly fun.

I mean in the end, it's not the realism that matters - it's that the realism produces some kind of fun, right?

[stefoid]

How about: for each point of damage player applies an extra adjective/noun to the effect?

So 1 pt of damage = graze
2 pts of damage = deep graze
3 pts = heavily bleeding wound
6pts = splintered bone jutting -- mangled bloody limb
etc...

you could have some fun with that!

[Ar Kayon]

Hi,

We play these games for fun...and there obviously isn't just one type of fun - there are many different and nuanced types of fun. Could you describe what would ideally be happening amongst the people - like what sort of fun they'd be having as the go through each step of working it out? Even if some steps aren't fun, list the ones that are and the fun that ideally would be involved. It might be anticipation fun, or imagining the minute details of it vividly fun.

I mean in the end, it's not the realism that matters - it's that the realism produces some kind of fun, right?

What do I mean by realism?  That the game's architecture is generally consistent with events in the actual world, based upon research.  Nevercast assumes that maintaining the suspension of disbelief adds great value to the play experience of its target audience.  It is also assumed that if the mechanics make logical sense, then the players know that they can reliably devise strategies without being subject to the whims of the GM.  So, although the GM is the arbiter, the rules encourage him to not be arbitrary, thus play is balanced.  I'm certain that many players will enjoy the knowledge that their choices matter.

Take note that the GM handles the calculations in-game, so that the gears and cogs are behind a curtain.  What the players experience are events, not numbers.  The effects system, in lieu of a hp system, allows this dynamic to work smoothly and the GM to determine things quickly without a calculator.  Through the GM's descriptive language, hinting at the effects, the player may then conjecture how events affected him.

Compare:
Player: "I attack him" (players rolls for attack, applies his modifiers, compares it against GM's target number)
GM"You hit, roll damage"
Player rolls damage "I hit for 12 damage!"

Vs.

Player: "I fire a large burst at the three opponents in front of me"
GM: "Shots rip into your opponents, instantly killing the first two guys as the third guy writhes and screams on the ground holding his bleeding abdomen"

[Ar Kayon]

How about: for each point of damage player applies an extra adjective/noun to the effect?

So 1 pt of damage = graze
2 pts of damage = deep graze
3 pts = heavily bleeding wound
6pts = splintered bone jutting -- mangled bloody limb
etc...

you could have some fun with that!

That's generally the idea.  There are 4 gradients of success:
1. Minor
2. Moderate
3. Major
4. Maximum

So, if you succeed an attack by 4, the opponent suffers the maximum effect of that particular attack type.  Basing the effect upon points of damage, however, unnecessarily applies an extra step in the process.

[Adam Dray]

What do I mean by realism?  That the game's architecture is generally consistent with events in the actual world, based upon research. 

Player: "I fire a large burst at the three opponents in front of me"
GM: "Shots rip into your opponents, instantly killing the first two guys as the third guy writhes and screams on the ground holding his bleeding abdomen"

Realism:

GM: A dude lifts a TDI Vector and fires a large burst at you.
Player: *rolls* I piss myself and stand there, frozen with fear.
GM: *rolls* It's okay. He totally misses, partly because he didn't actually want to shoot anyone. He's just scared, too. He runs away.
Player: I run away, too.

=D

[Ar Kayon]

Realism:

GM: A dude lifts a TDI Vector and fires a large burst at you.
Player: *rolls* I piss myself and stand there, frozen with fear.
GM: *rolls* It's okay. He totally misses, partly because he didn't actually want to shoot anyone. He's just scared, too. He runs away.
Player: I run away, too.

You make an excellent, albeit wise-ass point!  Fear and composure play a large role in the mechanics, and the more inexperienced you are, the lower your composure score is and the more likely you are to suffer the "fear" and "frozen" effects.  I haven't fully fleshed out the mechanics yet, but the GM will assign a value of fear relative to the situation.

So, let's say you're well outnumbered, and the GM assigns a fear value of 4.  However, your character is quite skilled and experienced (composure of 4), so he isn't affected.  Some unskilled average joe, who has a composure of 0, allows the fear value to pass by a +4 gradient of success, which means he suffers the "frozen" effect.  On the other hand, a scrappy punk may have a composure of 2 (+2 gradient of success for fear check), which means he suffers the less severe "fear" effect.  So this guy is shaking a bit, but the adrenaline is pumping (bonus to strength and others, penalty to dexterity and others, etc.) and he's ready to either fight back or run away.

[dindenver]

RK,
  I noticed you included knockback in your list of effects for firearms. It is important to know that firearms cannot actually exert knockback force on their target. They proved this on Mythbusters (last year I believe).

[Ar Kayon]

Shotguns were part of the "blast" attack type, and not other firearms.  However, upon further investigation, it seems that shotguns do not have the kind of energy to ellicit such an effect.

Thanks for pointing that out.  Research has been a royal pain in the ass for this game.

[chance.thirteen]

Guns have a simple reminder for knock back: the firer experiences just as much force, though spread along the butt or grip of the weapon. So if it doesn't know you back firing it, it won't knock someone back who gets hit by it.