Going to try after all

[Jack Spencer Jr]

Anyone who's been reading my Whe the GM Say "Better Watch Out..." threads on Actual Play already know what's my deal. Those who haven't, suffice it to say that I'm disatisfied with my groups' style of play and I've finally decided to see about running Sorcerer from them to see what happens, which may or may not result in me leaving the group anyway, but at least I'll have tried.

Anyway, links to helpful threads for first time GMs and how to run and any other advice would be appreciated. (I'll dig a bit myself when I find time)

I'm considering coming up with my own world idea based on U.S. Prohibition circa the 1920's. I'm not entirely sure how it works, but, heck, I started with the title Bathtub Djinn which is too clever for my own good. It kind of fits since both Djinns and booze tend to come in bottles and booze is refered to as "spirits." But then, being new to the whole thing, is coming up with this sort of thing wise? Advice of whether or not to do it as well as ideas on how to develop it (maybe some good prohibition-era movies) would also be appreciated.

[Christopher Kubasik]

Hi Jack,

Some immediate thoughts:

* Unless you're crew is already excited about the prohibition era, I'd watch out.  Make sure it's something everybody wants to play.

* Don't get married to the Demons in a Bottle thing.  Remember that every player gets a great deal of input on their demon.  That's part of the fun, and it's vital to getting that Authorship energy flowing.

Other than that, it sounds just fine.  I mean... Why not?  Sorcerer works great in lots of settings.  The trick is not to get excited about where you think the game is going.  Cause it won't, and shouldn't.

Take care and good luck,
Christopher

[Jack Spencer Jr]

Hi Christopher

Good points. I'll have to think about the prohibition idea a bit, but it may be a good idea to do it anyway just to drive home the fact that Sorcerer is different and thus they need to play different. I mean I think it's be a good idea to keep them off familar footing such as Sorcerer & Sword because then they'd just fall into old habbits again, or at least try to.

That said, I don't think I like prohibition-era all that much so I'll have to give it some thought.

I'm not married to the demon in a bottle idea any more than I'm married to the prohibition era in general. I may make it that only certain kinds are in bottle. I don't know. Maybe some of the members of this group need something that structured to get them going. Maybe not. More thought needed.

[Bob McNamee]

I wonder if you could use Dust Devils for this setting...

...swapping Devil for Djinn... etc...

20's Prohibition could have a fair amount of things in common characterwise with gritty westerns...

Bob McNamee

[Blake Hutchins]

"Bathtub Djinn" rocks as a title.  I love it.

Jack, without presuming not to be talking completely out of my ass,  let me suggest you should run something you REALLY dig, not start by trying to reverse-engineer a setting by psychoanalyzing your players.  If you find something you think is cool, something that excites you but has hooks for other players to grab onto and take ownership, you're golden.  Particularly if you're trying something new and radical like Sorcerer, take an angle that spins your whizzer, you know?  Have FUN with it.

If Prohibition doesn't rock your flotilla, don't do it.  Instead, make a list of your favorite tropes and build from there.

Best,

Blake

[Jack Spencer Jr]

Hey, Blake.

Yeah. I like the title, too. :)

Good advice. I'll have to give a bit more thought on what I'm into I guess. and with luck, the players will get into it as well.

Side question: what is the origin of this usage of the word "trope?" m-w.com says:
1 : a word or expression used in a figurative sense : FIGURE OF SPEECH
2 : a phrase or verse added as an embellishment or interpolation to the sung parts of the Mass in the Middle Ages
The usage here, and I've seen it other places as well, is usually trappings or conventions, as in "genre conventions" hence "genre tropes."

Just wondering.

[C. Edwards]

I second that the title Bathtub Djinn rocks.  So instead of worrying about the players' demons being bottle related why not make their nemesis either be or be in control of a demon in a bottle.  Seems like a natural match for some less than well meaning bootlegger.  Perhaps a bootlegger of some sorcerous skill that uses demons that hide in his bootleg liquor to possess people and use them for his own diabolical ends.

Anyway, you get the idea.  Hope your game goes well Jack.

-Chris

[Bailywolf]

Wel you cold blow the lid off things... Overt Sorcery was discussed a while back... how about a permutation on it...

What if...

Instead of booze, what if Prohabition was a national crackdown on Sorcery, eh?  Here is a cut-n-paste crib-n-edit (from this site: http://prohibition.history.ohio-state.edu/whyprohibition.htm)


The prohibition movement's strength grew, especially after the formation of the Anti-Sorcery League in 1893. The League, and other organizations that supported prohibition such as the Woman's Christian Witchhunting Union, soon began to succeed in enacting local prohibition laws. Eventually the prohibition campaign was a national effort.
During this time, the Summoning industry was the most prosperous of the Sorcerous industries. Because of the competitive nature of Summoning, the sommoners entered the retail business. Americans called retail businesses selling Demons and Demonic Services by the call Hot-houses. To expand the sale of demonics, Summoners expanded the number of hot-houses. Hot-houses proliferated. It was not uncommon to find one for every 150 or 200 Americans, including those who did not call upon dark powers. Hard-pressed to earn profits, demonkeepers sometimes introduced vices such as gambling and prostitution into their establishments in an attempt to earn profits. Many Americans considered Hothouses offensive, noxious institutions.


Just a lark.


But playing a crew of eliet G-men using the powers of Darkness to defend the American way (such as it was) or a desperate Hell-legger running bottled demons from Canada to Chicago while your partner- a squat scaled cigar chewing fiend- rides with a tommy gun in his lap...

[Paul Czege]

It's a pretty freakin' cool idea. I'm thinking it's crying out for serious use of the pacting rules from Sorcerer & Sword. I picture a wealthy and influential elite with a cellar full of bottles, each a pacted demon keeping a rival in line or contributing to the strength of some corporate venture. Of course, it's only a matter of time before all hell breaks loose and the whole economy crashes...

Paul

[Unsane]

All this sounds very cool.  Whatever happens, I wish you luck and fun - its sounds awesome.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Jack,

I'm flattered that you're considering Sorcerer - no matter what, even if you go with another game entirely, I'm going to benefit from your thoughts about it. Here are some of my responses to the thread ...

1) Jack, the next step is just jammin' with the players. Tell'em exactly what you told us in the first post, describe the game to them (and let them look at and read the book, very important), and see what they come up with. I think that response will do most of the work.

2) The term "motif" meaning repeated phrase or image comes from fine arts, mainly music. The first four notes of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony are a motif. I'm pretty sure people are using "trope" more or less as a synonym for motif; this may or may not be a terminological abomination, I dunno.

3) Benjamin! You are an astounding font of quick & cool Sorcerer interpretations. If I could only arm-lock you and noogie you until one of them got down on paper, in full, as a mini-supplement ...

Best,
Ron

[Jack Spencer Jr]

1) Jack, the next step is just jammin' with the players. Tell'em exactly what you told us in the first post, describe the game to them (and let them look at and read the book, very important), and see what they come up with. I think that response will do most of the work.

Actually, I'm a little apprehensive to let them read the book, especially "Ted." Last time I tried to run it was with a system Ted knew better than I did and he walked all over me. It completely shot my confidence and I haven't run since. This is almost ten years ago now. So I'm nervous about that, and I'm not sure how the group'll respond to just the way Sorcerer works on paper. "Ted's" given snap judgements of games like this before, like, say Theatrix.

Perhaps making handouts based on certain portions of text?

Oh and Ted is also a Frank Zappa fan so every time you say "Great Googly Moogly" you tweak me out. In fact, Ted wrote a story about a guy being pestered by a demon named Googly. Hmmm....

[Ron Edwards]

Hey,

She looked at me, with some bovine perspiration on her upper lip area, and said,
"Just get me wasted and you're halfway there, 'cause if my mind's tore up, then my body don't care,"
I rubbed my chinny-chin-chin, and said, "My my my, what sort of thing could this lady get high upon ..."

Heh. I'm a bad man.

OK, then, handouts might do the job too. On the other hand, I think the Sorcerer text has a kind of up-front "smack" effect on the reader that might be just right for Ted. I've seen people try to break the system before, and they always fail ...

Best,
Ron

[Blake Hutchins]

Hey Jack,

Ron's correct.  I use "trope" as a fancy way of saying "metaphor," "literary archetype," or "motif."  My writer's group uses trope a lot in this wise, and I've picked it up as a figure of speech.

My bad for confusing things.

Best,

Blake

[Bailywolf]

Har!  Thanks Ron... but the brain just won't sit still.  

I've never had an issue with the Sorcerer mechanics... they always seem to enforce the right mood, reward the right style of play, and withstand quite a lot of wheel-kicking.  I think your players will find the best way to squeeze a little extra mechanical juice out of their characters is to really play the hell out of them.  In Champs you teach players to squeeze those points until they scream... not so in Sorc.  

Its taken me a while to get my head around Sorcerer... it neatly sidesteps many typical RPG problems by redefining what's importiant...  game design Tia Chi.  Sorcerer ballances in play.

That said, I'd like to hear more about your game concepts... how are your defining Humanity, how do the sorcery rituals work/manifest, and what is the premise(s) you are considering?  

With the setting you are considering... I think you have the oportunity to tie Vice strongly into your sorcery... Prohabition was a time of mass transgression, when the greatest thrills came from persuing the illegal and the amoral... gambling, drinking, whoring, homicide for fun and profit... a school of sorcerers who's rituals all revolve around gambling games...and who's demons manifest as lucky charms, dames, decks of cards, or that tickling feeling at the back of your neck you get just before the wheel stops turning when you KNOW your number is up...