Magic and Mayhem in tRoS

[Northcott]

I've been searching for a game that simulates a certain level of realism and grit for quite some time, but one that's not too complex.  I'm thinking that tRoS might be it.

I'm a fan of more "realistic" worlds like Warhammer, Harn, etc -- but WFRP, while being simple to run and with very quick combat, feels lacking in certain elements of game play.  The system's too easy to "break".  Harn is the opposite; it's very realistic, with a great system for tracking wounds, and a great set of basic mechanics for religion, but it's so bloody complex it takes forever to generate a character or fight a small battle.

What I've heard about tRoS has me intrigued.  What I'm wondering about is the rule sets for magic and religion.  

To the best of my knowledge, religion is defined mostly as a political matter, and the actually mechanics of gaining miraculous favour from a God are left alone.

Sorcery, on the other hand, would seem to be very rare, but extremely powerful when it rears its head.

My personal preference is for a magic system that emulates what the beliefs of our middle ages were; that magic and supernatural power was everywhere, but that it is very subtle in nature.  I'd rather see a wise woman in each village, doling out love potions and good luck charms, with the rare magi dotting the landscape who can summon greater powers to their beck and call.  

How difficult would this be to emulate in tRoS?  Would you say this is already the feel granted by the rule set?  If not, how difficult would it be to tweak things in that direction?

[Brian Leybourne]

Hmm.

Well, first off you're spot on the ball about religion. The rule book even leaves it up to you to decide if the gods really exist or not, there's no "clerical magic" or anything silly like that, but of course even in the real world miracles are thought to sometimes happen...

magic is very like the middle ages in that everyone is terrified of it and self-proclaimed sorcerors had better watch out for torch-bearing mobs. That doesn't mean that you can't have the old crone sellinbg love potions et al, but they're probably either placebos, or maybe she had some herbalism knowledge and makes "potions" that wouldn't be dissimilar in some cases to our modern medicine, so yes, you cvan have that as well as the "really rare world shattering sorcerors". Of course, maybe that old women is just pretending to be a herbalist and she really CAN use magic...

Sounds like tRoS is just what you're looking for.

Brian.

[Lyrax]

tRoS is already leaning in that direction.

Tweaking, if even necessary, would be minimal.

[Northcott]

Thanks for the answers, guys.

If I could, however, I'd like a little clarificiation on magic.  The impression I got is that it's very rare, but when it does appear the mage in question is invariably a minor power house (at least).  Something is sticking out in my mind about a quote regarding even minor magi being deadly as sin if they've got time to cast a spell.

Is there an in-between ground here, or is it "boom or bust"?  Are there things as trivial and subtle as good luck charms, or is it an all or nothing proposition?  No magic at all, or magic that fries a man where he stands?

As you can tell, I'm having trouble getting a feel for the scale of the magic.  Anything you can do to clarify the "feel" and scope of the magic system would be deeply appreciated.

[Spartan]

Is there an in-between ground here, or is it "boom or bust"?  Are there things as trivial and subtle as good luck charms, or is it an all or nothing proposition?  No magic at all, or magic that fries a man where he stands?

Well, that's sort of it.  Magic in TROS is very risky to the caster.  Even a trivial spell can age the caster by a few months.  So even if they could make really low powered spells, I doubt they would bother.  Well, I wouldn't, anyway.

That being said, there is room for tweaking.  You could always introduce the concept of "cantrips" a la D&D...  Little things incapable of inflicting damage and the like... that cost only SP and have no aging effects.  However, in TROS, a spell that makes a person feel drunk has a CTN (Casting TArget Number) of 6, IIRC, which can result in up to 6 months' aging (!).  However, if you can create a spell with a low enough CTN, the potential for aging is minimal.   I've found that any CTN of 5 or lower is reasonably safe... resulting in maybe 0-2 months aging.

And Northcott, it's nice to see yet another Harniac kicking around... I may yet use TROS for a Harn campaign... I think it would work great!

-Mark

[Brian Leybourne]

Is there an in-between ground here, or is it "boom or bust"?  Are there things as trivial and subtle as good luck charms, or is it an all or nothing proposition?  No magic at all, or magic that fries a man where he stands?

As you can tell, I'm having trouble getting a feel for the scale of the magic.  Anything you can do to clarify the "feel" and scope of the magic system would be deeply appreciated.

It's pretty well "boom", to be honest :-)

Even starting level mages can use fairly simple spells to make someone commit suicide, implode, shrink by a factor of 10, accelerate someting to the speed of light and hit something else with it... you get the idea.

That's not to say you couldn't make your own rulings, or limit sorcerors to rank 1 in any vagary, which would limit the magic level down to what you're after (it's a very nasty exponential power curve from 1-3).

Maybe rank 1 is all anyone can get to except that very rare individual who has some special quality yo them thast allows them to reach rank 2, and only once in a liferime comes the sorcderor who can reach rank 3...

Brian.

[Northcott]

Heya, Mark!  
Yeah, I thought the same thing about the Harn connection when I saw this.  The Warhammer Fantasy setting is also another tight match, and that's what I'm looking at it for.

With Warhammer you've got the insidious threat of Chaos lurking around every corner, and since all magic is a reflection of chaos (in altering the natural state of things), magi tend to have to worry about being tainted more than any other being.  They've also got to worry about the Witch Hunters, who spend all their time worrying about whether or not the magi are tainted.

Thing is, if magic has as much boom as it sounds like, that kind of precarious balance is lost.  The feats that Brian listed are the way I want to present the most powerful magics.  Kind of like altering probability; if someone's already depressed and thinking about suicide, using a hex to push them over the edge shouldn't be that hard.  If, however, they're a robust soul, full of life and grit, pushing them in that direction is nigh impossible, and would require considerable arcane might.

The more something alters the laws of physics, the closer to impossible it is.  Flying, teleportation, etc... rare or impossible.  Falling a long way with relative safety -- requires some skill, but doable.

I'd love to see some alchemy rules for this game as well.  Seems like the kind of thing that would really fit in with the general feel. :) -- but now I'm getting ahead of myself.