Thoughts about The Riddle of Steel

[Janne Halmetoja]

Finally I got the book and I have read about 30 pages and skimmed thorough whole book. I must say, I'm impressed. I'd like congratulate you Jake, excellent work.

Spiritual attributes are great and other mechanics are good too. One thing which confused me first was skill rolls. I'm used to think that higher number, better skill. In tRoS it's different so I had to thought about it and I rolled a few times to see how it works. It worked just fine and I got realistic results.  

I'd like to get better encumbrance rules because there is not exact weight limits how much is mildly encumbranced or moderately encumbranced. How much can ST 5 character carry? I cannot find it, only how much he can lift. This is not big problem and I can make these rules by myself. Also item weights would be nice.

One text on backcover sticked to eye. "No annyoing Player Guide and GM Guide". Blue Planet has these both, but in ONE book has 256 pages and it costs $19.95 (softcover, hardcover was about 4 dollars more expensive). In tRoS has 260 pages and it costs $34.95. You get 512 pages with price of about 40 dollars. Paying 5 dollars more you get almost double of pages. So if book costs almost same than Player's Guide and GM's Guide together, I rather buy them both if I get more stuff. Of course there is books which have both and they cost lot more, but also books which don't. I think this was bad advertisement statement.

I post more comments when I read more, but I think it was worth of my money :) (though it cost me 46.90 euros).

Janne

[Jake Norwood]

I'd like to get better encumbrance rules because there is not exact weight limits how much is mildly encumbranced or moderately encumbranced. How much can ST 5 character carry? I cannot find it, only how much he can lift. This is not big problem and I can make these rules by myself. Also item weights would be nice.

Are you planning on adding up everything someone is carrying, really? How much does weight have to do with encumbrance when compared to shape and dimension? What is the benifit of the "how much can you carry" bit? I'm not saying that there aren't any, but are they worth it?

One text on backcover sticked to eye. "No annyoing Player Guide and GM Guide". Blue Planet has these both, but in ONE book has 256 pages and it costs $19.95 (softcover, hardcover was about 4 dollars more expensive). In tRoS has 260 pages and it costs $34.95. You get 512 pages with price of about 40 dollars. Paying 5 dollars more you get almost double of pages. So if book costs almost same than Player's Guide and GM's Guide together, I rather buy them both if I get more stuff. Of course there is books which have both and they cost lot more, but also books which don't. I think this was bad advertisement statement.

I post more comments when I read more, but I think it was worth of my money :) (though it cost me 46.90 euros).

Janne

I'm glad you feel the book was worth it. Concerning the "advirtising," understand that a standard hardback game book runs 30-40 bucks anymore, with 35 being pretty normal. 7th Sea, for example, cost $30 for the player book, and another $30 for the GM book. This is common in the industry. TROS is a complete game in one $35 book. Sure, it's not 512 pages, but I don't want to buy two books before I can play a game--I want one book, right now. Doing otherwise is a cheap scam to rob gamers of cash, generally speaking.

Anyway, thanks for the praise. As always, I'm overjoyed that someone likes my game.

Jake

[Janne Halmetoja]

[/quote] Are you planning on adding up everything someone is carrying, really? How much does weight have to do with encumbrance when compared to shape and dimension? What is the benifit of the "how much can you carry" bit? I'm not saying that there aren't any, but are they worth it?

First I like a _lot_ of details. Yes, I'm planning on adding up everything, but first I will try game without my own rules. If it works fine with printed rules, that's fine and I will not make my own rules.

I'm glad you feel the book was worth it. Concerning the "advirtising," understand that a standard hardback game book runs 30-40 bucks anymore, with 35 being pretty normal. 7th Sea, for example, cost $30 for the player book, and another $30 for the GM book. This is common in the industry. TROS is a complete game in one $35 book. Sure, it's not 512 pages, but I don't want to buy two books before I can play a game--I want one book, right now. Doing otherwise is a cheap scam to rob gamers of cash, generally speaking.

Anyway, thanks for the praise. As always, I'm overjoyed that someone likes my game.

I understand your view of point. I think too that it is robbing, so only game which I have bought with Player's Guide and GM's Guide is Blue Planet (It was worth of it). D&D 3rd Edition Core Rulebooks cost nowadays $29.95, they have gone up 50%(!) and you have to buy three of them. That's is robbing at it's best.

I complained some time ago for my friend that everything today is D20 or similar crap. Classes, restrictions.. uh I hate it. Nice to see that there is still people who make realistic, unique worlds and rules.

I have read 40 pages more and I must say I love tRoS. Everything seems to be done right (which is very rare thing). I'm looking for Flower of Battle and Of Men and Beasts with excitement. Are you planning to release more info about Weyrth?

Janne

[Janne Halmetoja]

Sorry, about confusing text. Quotes didn't work as I thought :/. I hope you still understand it :).

Janne

[Thirsty Viking]

Welcome to the Group.

I've been playing RPG's for ~24 years now.  I have never seen a book more complete from a rules standpoint for playing the game.  Everything NEEDED is there.  Ok the spell system is not defined and regimented into 150-400 spells.  

while the Book is compact...  the force of the punch it packs is incredible.  

Permanent Magic Creation Rules, Logical (shudder) and Consistent(double shudder) magic.  No pansy spell casters here...  but logically reluctant to use thier magic...  and not good in close quarted combat except for 1 spell attack which leaves them magic empty, if consious.

A melee system I find unparalelled for it's realism AND playability after experiencing a dozen + games.  All the basic weapons are there.  

A brief and very well rounded chart of goods and services.

Great charachter creation in the SA's that helps the Seneschal (Sen. herafter) draw the players into the experience buy setting "personal Objectives" of various sorts for thier charachters that..Help the Sen. provide fun adventures, establises how they advance, and REWARDS them instantly for persuing Goals with instant +dice on thier rolls, AND charachter advancement durring play.

To top it off we have 50 pages of nicely laid out campaign setting rivaling what i have seen some people offer as complete boxed supplements in the past...(world of greyhawk was of similar scope I believe...  but not as well done..  more countries I think with less useful information)  Again he strikes a delicate balance here...  the Rulers are generaly undefined, but clearly typed,  Internal struggles, Highlighted Economics, even religious tensions available for use.   I doubt you could find this type of detail in a suplement for less than $10 A smattering of exotic and natural creatures to keep the flow going..  Yeti and Ogre like as well as base stats for the lions, boars, and Bears..(oh my)

To me there is little challenge,  other than willpower and endurance for breaking all these things into tiny pieces and going into too much detail just to push sales.   The true challenge of almost all art is to distill the mass of noise into its essential parts.   tRoS has all it's essential parts for long campaigns of roleplaying in just one book.  

So when it comes to the statement about just one book...  I agree... Expansions...  supplements..  sure some of those are coming.  If thier quality follows the examples Jake set in the main book...  They'll sell and be usefull in the odd situations,  or specialized campaigns where someone wants something different like fighting armies against each other,  or a players doesn't want to make up his own spells.  Read through this forrum  you'll find i want to help make a supplement based around Gladiators...  Game doesn't NEED it... but the system is so WONDERFUL for it.

Well i need to climb off my soapbox....   read the whole book before you decide about that addvertisement  ...   then read it again...  then think of a challenge for the system and watch the solution probably fall right in your lap from the book,  or from this forum.

I've even sketched out rules to run a 85% of a baseball game with tRoS combat system. Then I got on the gladiator thing, I'm not a baseball fan anyway, I was trying to learn the thrown weapons...  By the time I post this I will have only had the system 13 days.

[Thirsty Viking]

sorry you posted while i was writing mine.  I'm glad you think it's worth it  :-)

[Vanguard]

I absolutely agree with Viking, so there's not a great deal for me to add.

Basically, it comes down to films and books.  Roleplaying was an opportunity to be those heroes from the stories (or villains....or cameos even) and to experience the atmosphere and tension derided from such high adventure.  

Previous to this game, on the whole RPGs have catered to the powermonger, to playing onwards only for the sake of scrounging that next scrap of XP.  Finally there comes a system that when it feels right for a PC to get away with it, the odds are that much more in his favour. Rather than relying on the fact that a hero now has more Hit Points than a small third world country, it makes sense why the good guy wins (again, or bad guy).

Imagine Indigo Montoya from Princess Bride announcing his vow to kill his father's murderer only to die from the first thrown knife.  It might make sense statistically, but no fucking way! Indigo is gonna get that bloke whatever the cost.

So...ermm...yeah...(enuff waffling)...nice one Jake.

[Silanthous]

I unfortunately don't currently own a book, or even have access to one, Lyrax has the book i saw and he went back to school. but i can tell you Riddle is the most intresting system i have played, and i absolutely love the freedom of the vagaries system. no longer do i have to collect individual spells, like fireball and shocking grasp, instead i get general knoledge and apply it to any situation i want, movement for fireballs, and also for grabbing that key thats just out of reach. no new spells, just a new use. Also none of that annoying Paradox that White wolf uses, closest magic system to riddle that i know of. so good job on the magic system Jake.

[Janne Halmetoja]

I have some questions now.

First I'd like to know Profiency rating explanations. 1 means of course novice but how about 5 or 8? I'd like to get some explanations on that. Also, is 10 maximum profiency for human or can it be 15 or even 20?

Also attribute rating explanations would be nice. Someone posted them but I don't remember where.

Also I'd like get success chances. Someone posted these too, but again I don't remember where.

Janne

[Jake Norwood]

4 is "average" all the way around in the system. There's no ceiling for proficiencies (but there is for vagaires). Book one should explain most of your questions pretty well.

Jake

[Thirsty Viking]

4 is "average" all the way around in the system. There's no ceiling for proficiencies (but there is for vagaires). Book one should explain most of your questions pretty well.

Jake

I'm curious,  at charachter creation there is a limit on how hidh a value the SA's can be given.  Is there any such limit in game play .... i had always approached with a limit in mind of 5 ...  and thus reasoned that the Attribute chart stopped at 10 because SA cost to raise at that point was 25 (5 SA's maxed at 5 each)  When i looked back through to find this however, I was unable too.

As long as i'm asking...  ATTRIBUTES  Reading my copy of RoS seems to indicate that Max ATT. is 11 ....  (that it costs 25 to Raise an Att of 10 to 11)  The chart ends at this point.   Am I reading it as it was intended or did an error slip past the editor?  

thanks in advance.

[Brian Leybourne]

Human limit is 10 (average 4, as you said). However, other creatures can go well above ten in some cases (just look at a giants strength, for example).

Brian.

[Thirsty Viking]

thats what I thought,  just not how the table is written... I may have missed something from another area of the book.  A dwarf for instance might go to ST or TO 11 as a PC I guess at a cost of 25 SA

[Lance D. Allen]

SAs top out at 5, unless a character's nationality bonus says otherwise. Some nationalities declare that the Faith SA may raise to 7, but must never drop below 3, or other such exceptions to the rule.

[Thirsty Viking]

Thats what I thought, But when I looked through the book the only ruling i found was for during Charachter Creation.  So I wasn't sure.