Once again, why I do not fear making a post at The Forge

[John Wick]

Yes, I made a post over at rpg.net.

Yes, a bunch of people started throwing personal insults at me (most of whom haven't read my work or even know what I look like).

Yes, that is the reason I love The Forge. Thank you to Ron and Clinton and everybody else. You have a wonderful, friendly environment to discuss disagreements.

Take care,
John

PS: I received about a dozen private "John, I think you're cool!" e-mails since I posted. Those I count. The rest, I discount.

[TSL]

I won't throw insults, just a gripe:

I wanna be 17 and Immortal.

I wanna rumble.

I want my Neverland, John.

:)

[Mike Holmes]

John you fetid rat-bastard, how dare you show your disgusting visage here! I thought we were rid of your retched presence! Had I known that you were going to be allowed to return I'd have revoked my subscription here! Your mother was a Hamster and your father stank of elderberry!

Mike

P.S. Don't want anyone thinking that we're getting soft here at The Forge.  ;-)  Sorry John. How are ya?

[deadpanbob]

Gosh, the Forge even gets a better class of Flaming Trolls...

[Mike Holmes]

Gosh, the Forge even gets a better class of Flaming Trolls...

I'll take that as a compliment. Just because I'm "that way".

Hey, John, been tempted to write at all lately? Might that also be a secret reason for lurking on site (he said, hoping to heaven that it was true)?

Mike

[John Wick]

Hey, John, been tempted to write at all lately? Might that also be a secret reason for lurking on site (he said, hoping to heaven that it was true)?

Mike

Not exactly. But I have been speaking with a young woman interested in breaking into the field. She has an intriguing idea for a game company, and I've been consulting with a few folks here at The Forge about it. I think her website will be up soon (her webmaster is one of my rommates).[/quote]

[Zak Arntson]

I've still got my eyes out for a copy of Orkworld. I haven't read any of your gaming stuff (just the Last Paladin fiction). I'm guessing I can't order from Wicked Press anymore, what with the website down and all?

Granted, ebay has a copy for 10 bucks (after shipping), but I'd rather support you directly.

[greyorm]

Heya John, glad to see you're hanging about!

Oh, and Mike, you misspelled "wretched"...as written, apparently John carries his upchucked 'presence' around with him, possibly in a jar. Or maybe it just follows him around like a lost puppy. Either way, it's a pretty disturbing image, but great as an idea for a Sorcerer character.

(Figured I'd continue the mock troll-flamewar -- for those keeping track, that was the the move known as, "Ha, you can't spell!" ;D )

I'm now going to go design a Sorcerer character based off John Wick and his horrid, upchucked presence. What sorts of powers should I give it?

[James]

Yes, that is the reason I love The Forge. Thank you to Ron and Clinton and everybody else. You have a wonderful, friendly environment to discuss disagreements.

RPGnet is a sewer.  A popular, heavily-trafficked sewer, but it's still a sewer.  It's nearly impossible to get any sort of real, substantive discussion going on, thanks to the confluence of moderators who don't moderate and a body of users that make the mob that sacked the governor's house on the "Day of Tiles" look like an orderly bunch.

In fact, I wouldn't be much surprised if RPGnet actually turned away potential hobbyists, since the content of the discourse there is so often the epitome of everything that is wrong with gamers and gaming.

[Christoffer Lernö]

RPGnet is a sewer.  A popular, heavily-trafficked sewer, but it's still a sewer.  It's nearly impossible to get any sort of real, substantive discussion going on

I was recently thinking the same thing. Originally I was on RPGnet and then after suggestions by a few posters I found my way here (so there is a use for it after all!). Now a few days ago I was thinking: "why don't I post some of the threads I had little or no reply to on rpg.net?"

So, that's what I did. And sure, I got a lot of replies. Only the funny thing is, if I filter away the useless replies I don't really have anything left. If I post something on the Forge and get no replies, it's because people can't find anything useful to add. On RPGnet people just write.

You present an idea and someone writes you "oh, I had that idea and I was going have <insert useless and incredibly hard to implement vague idea here>". It's hard to say what you really think because

a) they are sincere and took the time to write something

b) the idea is neat (even though it probably isn't feasible and usually vague enough that it would take weeks of tries to squeeze out some actual definitions to try to base a mechanic on)

Unless you want people to say "oh, cool" to all your ideas and for that being the only useful feedback you need. Then RPGnet is great. But if you're actually trying to improve your design it is not.

Viva the Forge!

(Even if people can be rude sometimes because I know they have the best intentions :) I even think that's true of you M ;) )

[Jake Norwood]

Yeah, this is true on more and more forums. I was chatting with someone the other day about forums in a different industry, and between the two of us we could only count a few forums total--about one or two per "industry" that actually promoted thought on the topic they claimed to hold. And the forge is nice.

Oh, and John, I published my game, The Riddle of Steel, largely due to some encouragment you gave me in an email where I wrote "I've got this game, what should I do with it..." I felt dumb for writing it at the time, but it was before I knew about any RPG websites, but I knew I liked L5R, 7th Sea, and especially Orkworld...

Anyway, thanks.

Jake Norwood

[wyrdlyng]

...thanks to the confluence of moderators who don't moderate...

RPG.net's forums are moderated? Seriously? In the many years I've wandered through there I've never seen anything resembling moderation.

I'd like to take this moment then to thank Ron and Clinton for doing an outstanding job of keeping The Forge a welcome place for intelligent discussion.

And I'd like to welcome John back. I'm a fan of his works, especially Orkworld, and he was a nice guy when I met him at GenCon a few years back.

[Ron Edwards]

Dudes, dudes,

All this just a couple of months after I requested a "Be more fuckin' nice dammit" policy toward other RPG sites, most especially RPG.net.

John's right about his treatment there, in my view, but I'm not going to let this forum start trading invective either.

And yes, it is moderated, now. You should have seen it two years ago. My call is to give credit where it's due, for improvement, and RPG.net has improved immeasurably.

Best,
Ron

[pigames]

Hey John and the Forge gang. Had to add my rant...

Yes, RPGnet's forums are sewers. I lost my temper there again the other day. I was posting in the ads/promos forum about my Action Exploits Diceless Rules and that I was going to release BTRC's CORPS background for it (of course I didn't mention BTRC). Someone had to immediately point out that I might be infringing on BTRC's copyright. So I lost it. If I'm posting it, I have license to do so. I'm not a gimp. Posting in Ads/Promos does not mean that I am soliciting for opinion or IP advice. I know, temper, temper.... If I want advice I come to The Forge. You can easily have an intelligent conversation here.

Anyway, John, my friend used to belong to some discussion list you moderated (L5R I assume). He used to tell me about the stupid questions and how you used to answer them. He used to laugh at your responses all the time. He loved them. I caught a few too.

I have never seen one person get bad-mouthed that much. Other gaming companies should never bad mouth colleagues or even rivals for that matter. It's such a shame about the rampant anarchy there.

[Mike Holmes]

First, yes, the RPG.net fora are moderated. Moslty it consists of taking posts that have little to do with RPGs and shunting them off to some mystical place called "Tangency" where I believe a lot of the cooler RPG.netters now hang out almost exclusively in some sort of self imposed exile.

That said, I have noticed a distinct increase in the number of untrammeled discussions there. And a sentiment amongst posters as a whole that the trolling and flaming is no longer as tolerated as it once was. The signal to noise ratio is certainly lower than at the Forge, but as always the total information content there remains rather high with all the traffic. If you can sift through it there are actually some good discussions going on.

For instance I actually got into a pretty decent discussion of the definition of RPGs there along with, of all people, Gliechman. And there was an interesting thread on the use of flowery language when playing fantasy games.

Don't count RPG.net out. There's still a lot going on over there. If you haven't been there in a while, I suggest going over and taking another look. With a crtical eye, but an unbiased one. Some people seem to be able to exist there as easily as here. Ask Max (AKA Balbinus). He frequents both with equal aplomb. He asks questions respectfully there, and gets (for the most part) respectful answers.

Anyway, enough about that.

John, thanks for the teaser. Any chance you can give us more info? Will you at least let us know when the new site is up?

Mike