Ancient Roman Fighting Schools/Arts?

[Janne Halmetoja]

I'm intrested in running campaign in ancient Rome and I'd like to use Riddle because of combat system. I just have one problem, because I don't know anything about Roman fighting schools and arts. If someone could help me with this, I'd be grateful.

I'd like to get same kind of list of maneuvers of school as in Riddle's book. I don't want to know every single school, only what was taught for legionaries and gladiators. Anyone know good page or have done this already?

Janne

[Thirsty Viking]

to be honest with you,  I doubt there is much diffrence in the schools...   You need some special rules for pilum,  and Formation fighting is due out in February in oBaM (Of Beasts and Men).   Other than the near imperviousnes of the tortise formation to normal missle fire,  and the use of the pilum ad a shield removing device...   it's prety much sword and shield fighting I believe.   Just limit weapons appropriately.    Perhaps a new school for trident and Net for the gladiators...   but I'm not sure it needs it.

Our Gladiator Discussion has slowed down this month as we start to write,  you can ask some questions about schools at  

http://www.protoreality.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=48  

and we'll try to hash them out there some,  if noone picks it up here.

Basicly I think a Gladius is a ShortSword,
My interpretation of Pilum
a pilum Trows as a Javilin,  but it bends out of shape when it hits,(can't be thrown back at legion)  
If Blocked with a shield it will penetrate the shield if the defender margin is less than 3 success,
on a single success margin by the attacker hit it penetrates the shield and hits the Arm of the defenderon
at two success hit it penetrates the sheild and hits the Chest of the defender.
More than 2 success margin by the Attacker the shield isn't involved.

A shield with a pilum stuck in it becomes practicly useles,  -2CP to defender,  +2 activation cost to block...  Can't block if Pilum is through shield and In chest.  (treat shield as a Breast plate where pinned..  perhaps AV 4)

The removal of shields by the Pilum, was one of Romes most useful tactics in their conquests.   I assume that shields later improve, because the pilum pretty much goes away after rome...   at least the way the pilum was used.   Javelins remain useful..  but this weapon technology is mostly abandoned.

[Brian Leybourne]

Formation fighting is due out in February in oBaM (Of Beasts and Men).

Ahh... Not unless someone has slipped it in there when I wasn't looking... I certainly didn't put it in there :-)

You'll be wanting "The Flower of Battle" for that stuff, I would guess.

Brian.

[Irmo]

Formation fighting is due out in February in oBaM (Of Beasts and Men).

Ahh... Not unless someone has slipped it in there when I wasn't looking... I certainly didn't put it in there :-)

You'll be wanting "The Flower of Battle" for that stuff, I would guess.

Brian.

Hm, and why don't we get all those nice supplements like, um, yesterday? ;) *duck*

[Brian Leybourne]

Hm, and why don't we get all those nice supplements like, um, yesterday? ;) *duck*

Uhh...

You want to wait until they've been written? It's far easier to publish books that way :-)

OBAM is going through editing and artworking (hey.. I made up a new word!) at the moment, and last I heard should be on shelves early Feb or so. It might be that it'll be possible to buy it online before then, I'm not sure.

TFOB and SATF, well, I have no idea actually :-) But with luck they wont be too far behind OBAM.

Brian.

[Irmo]

You want to wait until they've been written? It's far easier to publish books that way :-)

OBAM is going through editing and artworking (hey.. I made up a new word!) at the moment, and last I heard should be on shelves early Feb or so. It might be that it'll be possible to buy it online before then, I'm not sure.

TFOB and SATF, well, I have no idea actually :-) But with luck they wont be too far behind OBAM.

Brian.

Bah, never mind the artwork ;) I'll take the drafts ;)

[Brian Leybourne]

Nah, you'll have to wait. However, a while back I posted a brief of the jousting rules from the horseback combat section of the "animals" chapter, if you search through the forum you'll find that - should serve as a teaser for you :-)

Brian.

[Irmo]

Nah, you'll have to wait. However, a while back I posted a brief of the jousting rules from the horseback combat section of the "animals" chapter, if you search through the forum you'll find that - should serve as a teaser for you :-)

Brian.

Why, you want to make me even more impatient? Grrrr, wait till I get down there... ;)

[Jake Norwood]

Just to make you even more antsy, if you look you can find two entries that I wrote: one for some undead, another for some siehe. They're in threads marked with "Bestiary" in the title somewhere.

The editing is going well, and art has started.

Jake

[Irmo]

Just to make you even more antsy, if you look you can find two entries that I wrote: one for some undead, another for some siehe. They're in threads marked with "Bestiary" in the title somewhere.

The editing is going well, and art has started.

Jake

Grrr, you can be glad that you have better training than I have, otherwise, I'd come up there and demand satisfaction ;)

[Mike Holmes]

The one odd Roman gladiatorial style was called the Retaruis meaning Fisherman. This is appropriate because the Retarius used the trident and net combination. This one would need substantial work to create, style-wise.

Interestingly, the gladiators had to be forced to learn the Retarius style, because it was not glamorous relative to the other styles. This is because the style involved running away from your enemy a lot. Essentially, you'd swing with the net to entangle the opponent, and if you missed you'd run to a point where you could "wind up" with it again. You'd only press with the trident if you got the opponet tangled up. This because, not having  shield, and the trident being a poor parying weapon, the Retarius had little defense. They even wore less armor than most other styles. Not wanting the retarius to be able to reset, the other gladiators would give chase, pressing thier advantage.

In fact, all gladiator styles were decided for the gladiator. They had no choice of what style they would choose, and the styles that existed were often chosen for drama rather than effectiveness. For example, the most honored gladiators wore no armor on their chests. This was seen as bold, and being forced into one of the heavy styles with full armor was almost seen as insulting. Despite the fact that it was way, way more effective. To whit, the heavy gladiators who were armored, were often outfitted just like all the men in the military. Who were outfitted so because of the effectiveness of the style.

The Myrmidon style for example means the fish, and was an honored style. It used no chest armor, and was specifically designed to go up against the Retarius. They even had fish crests on their helmets (so the retarius could "fish" for them). So again, we see that the "style" was selected for drama, rather than effectiveness. The Myrmidon just got to chase the Retarius around the arena, making him popular.

Interesting stuff, eh?

Mike