Set-up time

[Jack Spencer Jr]

OK, trying to look at things from another angle.

Taken to the extreme, in at least one direction anyway, gamist can require a lot of set-up time.  Games such as Warhammer Quest, for example.

I know, I know.  WHQ is more a pseudo-RPG boardgame than a real RPG, but plenty of people play this way.  I know this because my GM plays this way.  He brings stacks of figure boxes, battle maps, miscellaneous props with him to the game.

It works and all that, but it's a lot of effort.

Simulationist games can likewise become rather prop-heavy.  Figure to represent the scene environment etc or, for games moving toward LARPs, costumes  set pieces  and so on.

My question is can narrativism also get prop-heavy like this?  I suppose it could but that may be player sticking to old habits of miniatures and battle mats than items actually necessary to or reflective of a narrativist style.

This is a sticking point for me, you see.  It's not cricket to think of one style as "superior" to another.  I understand this.  But it's also human nature to play favorites.

I'm currently of a mind that narrativism is "better" since it does not require a minivan to bring everything you need to play.  I need this illusion shattered.

[ This Message was edited by: pblock on 2001-07-31 01:49 ]

[Jack Spencer Jr]

On second though, never mind.  I think I'm asking this question for the wrong reason.

If the moderator wishes to delete this topic that's fine.

[Ron Edwards]

Jack,

I don't think you're off-topic. If we leave the judgment issue aside, I think you've raised an important topic, about props.

I don't think anyone will disagree that Everway provides a great GMing tool with its Vision cards. For those who don't know about it, you have a big stack of cards with images on one side, with no explanation or context whatsoever, and some challenge questions on the other ("What does the carving in the background mean?" for instance). Any cool picture will do, of course, but the Vision cards in the box are a start.

The first step in character creation is choosing any five cards that tell a story about the character so far. Furthermore, during play, the GM is expected to use the Vision cards regularly to illustrate anyone or anything going on in the adventure. (Side note: this is the most value I ever got out of quite a few Magic cards.)

The during-play technique has stuck with me for a lot of games, and although some folks might claim, probably correctly, that it's an Explorative rather than Narrativist technique, and therefore good for any role-playing, it seems to have a Narrativist bite of its own.

I now spend quite a lot of time finding sources of imagery for my game sessions, especially for Hero Wars. It's not unusual for me to provide a six-page handout with nothing on it but faces and places culled from half-a-dozen sources, labeled with the in-game names. It also creates an effect I like for the player, which is to have a folder rather than just a sheet for the character, kind of a dossier.

Again, I'm not claiming the technique "for" Narrativism at all - but it represents a use of props that certainly takes up a lot of my time, as well as occupies a fair amount of physical space during play and for the player's main prop (the character papers).

My conclusion is that props may be a big part of play for any application of GNS.

Best,
Ron

[Gordon C. Landis]

Ron,

When you get time (after GenCon would be my huess), I'd love to hear more about WHERE you get the images/faces/places you use - RP magazines?  Websites?  etc.

Jack,

"I'm currently of a mind that narrativism is "better" since it does not require a minivan to bring everything you need to play. I need this illusion shattered."

If you don't want to take a mini-van worth of stuff to a game, a game that doesn't require that (Narrativist or otherwise) IS "better".  Someone else who doesn't mind the stuff  . . . for them, it is NOT "better".  It might well be "worse", because they LIKE the stuff.

Don't known if that shatters your illusion, but . . . there you have it.

Gordon C. Landi

[Ian O'Rourke]

I think I mentioned this in a thread before, but for me games of a hard Gamist or Simulationist bent do take more time to set-up. I'm sure it's not always true, but is it true the majority of the time.

Of course this may be an opinion based on bad experience and ignorance.