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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 83 - most online ever: 565 (October 17, 2020, 02:08:06 PM)
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Author Topic: The Pool--hardcore  (Read 9392 times)
James V. West
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« on: November 11, 2002, 08:02:16 AM »

Let the beatings begin. Here is the hardcore version of The Pool. Most everything is restored to its original form, with some differences. I've read it over and over but I'm still known for missing obvious mistakes. If anyone finds something amiss, questionable, or otherwise problematic, please let me know.

The Pool

The Pool-no background, no links, printer-friendly

One thing I'm particularly curious about is the use of the term "GM dice". I put it in to help eliminate confusion. Did it work?

Thanks for your time and paitence. You people kick ass.

[edited to fix links]
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Bob McNamee
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« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2002, 08:25:16 AM »

Links in message aren't working...
they have an added http:/indie-rpgs.com...
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Bob McNamee
Indie-netgaming- Out of the ordinary on-line gaming!
Bob McNamee
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« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2002, 08:40:00 AM »

I like the rewrite!

Placing the Trait dice as part of GM dice is nice...

you may want to change the sentence...

Quote
When you roll, the GM will provide 1-3 GM dice to add to the throw. If you can show an obvious connection between your intention and one of your character’s Traits, you can add Bonus dice to your roll if that Trait has a Bonus.


to read
.... and one of your character’s Traits, you can add extra GM Bonus dice (equal to the Trait's Bonus) to your roll.
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Bob McNamee
Indie-netgaming- Out of the ordinary on-line gaming!
James V. West
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« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2002, 11:38:23 AM »

Hey Bob, thanks for pointing out the link problem. I was using html and obviously doing something wrong. I changed the links to bbcode and now they work swell.

And thanks for the suggestion. I'm thinking "...you can add extra GM dice (equal to your Trait's Bonus) to your roll." sounds about right.
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J. Backman
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« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2002, 11:40:00 AM »

Much, much clearer than the previous version. Also, the term 'GM dice' certainly clears things up a bit.

One suggestion though -- I think more examples (perhaps from other settings than the Damart example) would help to present the rules better for those who've never played something as free-form as The Pool before. Just IMO.
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Pasi Juhani Backman
James V. West
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« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2002, 11:54:11 AM »

Hey thanks, Pasi. More examples are forthcoming at some point. I was trying to keep this version really compact, but I have plans for additional pages of support using my own playtesting as well as all the great feedback I've got here at The Forge.
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Paganini
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« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2002, 01:14:07 PM »

Whee! Cool! I see my name! I see my name! :)

Overall impression: Very nice. Much clearer than before. The added explanations are very helpful. Of course, you know how I feel about "the rule of three" so, you can imagine my wince at "When you roll successfully, you have two options: add a die to your Pool, or make a Monologue of Victory." Alas. :)

Comments:

I don't think that bonus dice from Traits and gifted dice from the GM should both be included in "GM dice." For dice to roll, I'd have "Pool Dice," "Trait Dice," and "GM Dice." Dice that you get if you forgoe a MoV are "Reward Dice."

Also, you seemed to have removed the bit about the GM being able to stop a MoV. How come?

I'm assuming that spending dice to increase traits is done *during* a session, rather than in between sessions? (Since pools now regenerate to 9 in between sessions.) Actually, that could still be a problem. Any dice leftover at the end of a session can be spent to increase traits for free.

"If you chose to add a die to your Pool then the GM will narrate the outcome of the conflict any way he chooses. This could be good for your character, or it can be bad."

Last time I checked, the Pool was about "outcome resolution." In fact, this version of the game mentions it: "Dice are cast to determine the general outcome of conflicts."

To me, that says that a roll has the following possible results:

Failure: GM narrates bad stuff.
Success: MoV. Player narrates good stuff.
Success: Reward die. GM narrates good stuff.

Your list of Cool People (of which I am one... woohoo!) is on there twice. I'd suggest combing the two into one at the beginning, or one at the end.
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James V. West
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« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2002, 06:39:32 PM »

Quote from: Paganini

I don't think that bonus dice from Traits and gifted dice from the GM should both be included in "GM dice." For dice to roll, I'd have "Pool Dice," "Trait Dice," and "GM Dice." Dice that you get if you forgoe a MoV are "Reward Dice."


You get reward dice, bonus dice, and gift dice all from the GM so I figured why add terminology? What it boils down to is any dice you gamble comes from your Pool, all other dice are GM dice.

Quote

Also, you seemed to have removed the bit about the GM being able to stop a MoV. How come?


Oversight. I'm going to add some more back in regarding MOVs. See that's exactly why I post here.

Quote

I'm assuming that spending dice to increase traits is done *during* a session, rather than in between sessions? (Since pools now regenerate to 9 in between sessions.) Actually, that could still be a problem. Any dice leftover at the end of a session can be spent to increase traits for free.


Hmm. Good point. Of course, you could also argue that it would be rare to have enough dice left over to do squat anyway. I've never ran a session in which anyone came out with more than 4 or 5 dice left over. Enough to get a +2 at best. I'm not totally convinced that's a problem. If I said you can do this stuff only at the start of a session, you'd have to have ended up with a lot of dice leftover last time to get anything done--and then you'd have a tiny Pool.

I'm open to arguments on this.

Quote

"If you chose to add a die to your Pool then the GM will narrate the outcome of the conflict any way he chooses. This could be good for your character, or it can be bad."

Last time I checked, the Pool was about "outcome resolution." In fact, this version of the game mentions it: "Dice are cast to determine the general outcome of conflicts."

To me, that says that a roll has the following possible results:

Failure: GM narrates bad stuff.
Success: MoV. Player narrates good stuff.
Success: Reward die. GM narrates good stuff.


This is a part I need to clarify more. I didn't spend much time on it at all. What I should have said was that the outcome would still be positive (meaning it would at least lean toward what you wanted) if you took the die instead of the MOV.

Quote

Your list of Cool People (of which I am one... woohoo!) is on there twice. I'd suggest combing the two into one at the beginning, or one at the end.


Oops. Fixed it.

Thanks for the feedback. I made some adjustements already!
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Paganini
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« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2002, 07:17:39 PM »

Hey James!

Often in the rush to make our voices heard, we often forget to offer prase. So... I may be a squeaky wheel, but let me say up front that your work on the Pool is rocking. These comments I'm making are pretty minor in comparison.

Quote

You get reward dice, bonus dice, and gift dice all from the GM so I figured why add terminology? What it boils down to is any dice you gamble comes from your Pool, all other dice are GM dice.


See, this seems counterintuitive to me. I'm the one that wrote the traits. I'm the one that thought they were important enough to sink dice in. So, how come the dice I get from them are *GM* dice? Not a big deal, but seems slightly confusing.

Quote

Hmm. Good point. Of course, you could also argue that it would be rare to have enough dice left over to do squat anyway. I've never ran a session in which anyone came out with more than 4 or 5 dice left over. Enough to get a +2 at best. I'm not totally convinced that's a problem. If I said you can do this stuff only at the start of a session, you'd have to have ended up with a lot of dice leftover last time to get anything done--and then you'd have a tiny Pool.


Agree Not sure if it's a problem or not. Did seem like a strange enough anomoly to mention, though.
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Bob McNamee
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Posts: 685


« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2002, 07:31:36 PM »

the scarce resouce that the players are managing then becomes just the Pool.
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Bob McNamee
Indie-netgaming- Out of the ordinary on-line gaming!
Mark Withers
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« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2002, 02:39:07 AM »

Well done - that's the best-written version yet!

Effortless retro cool!

Are you going to add descriptions of the many variants and add-ons that have come about? Like the rule of three, Monologues of Defeat and anti-pool?

In play, I like to make a distinction between the players pool and the 'common pool' or as you call them 'GM dice'. Having different coloured dice for each pool means you can easily work out how many of your dice you get back when after you roll. It just makes everything a hell of a lot smoother and more visual. It's definately worth including in the rules.
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xiombarg
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« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2002, 09:19:27 AM »

Much cleaner than last time. Excellent.

Not that I'm ever going to get my players to play it again without some serious effort, after our problems with an earlier draft...
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James V. West
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« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2002, 04:59:44 PM »

Quote
Having different coloured dice for each pool means you can easily work out how many of your dice you get back when after you roll. It just makes everything a hell of a lot smoother and more visual.


That's what I think.

There are 3 different pools of dice: the GM's dice, the common pool, and each player's own pool. Only the players' pools are "real" pools, though, because they are defined and limited to what's actually there. They are a resource, whereas the other pools are just utilities. I wouldn't have need to distinguish at all except its eaiser if you can tell them all apart. Big load of dice lying in the middle, small piles in front of each player, and a pile in front of the GM that looks different enough for immediate recognition. That's all you need to know.

Quote
Much cleaner than last time. Excellent.

Not that I'm ever going to get my players to play it again without some serious effort, after our problems with an earlier draft...


Well, that's a damn good argument for getting it right the first time, huh? I'm slowly, painfully learning my lessons ;-)

Quote
I'm the one that wrote the traits. I'm the one that thought they were important enough to sink dice in. So, how come the dice I get from them are *GM* dice? Not a big deal, but seems slightly confusing.


I just called them that for clarity. You might also call them "boosters" or something. No big deal, they just need to be distinguished from the other dice is all.
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2002, 09:16:26 AM »

Hi James,

You wrote,
Only the players' pools are "real" pools, though, because they are defined and limited to what's actually there. They are a resource, whereas the other pools are just utilities.

I suggest that this text belongs in the game.

Best,
Ron
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Mark Withers
Member

Posts: 18


« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2002, 01:49:47 AM »

Quote from: Ron Edwards
Hi James,

You wrote,
Only the players' pools are "real" pools, though, because they are defined and limited to what's actually there. They are a resource, whereas the other pools are just utilities.

I suggest that this text belongs in the game.

Best,
Ron


Also, since the GM doesn't actually roll or use any dice, I suggest the dice that aren't in the players pools should be called 'the common pool', 'unviersal pool' or 'utility dice' in the text.

Linking them to the GM is perhaps a little misleading...

Mark.
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