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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 69 - most online ever: 565 (October 17, 2020, 02:08:06 PM)
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Author Topic: The Pool--hardcore  (Read 9382 times)
James V. West
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Posts: 567


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« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2002, 07:09:10 PM »

Ron:

Yeah, I guess that wouldn't be a bad idea. Sort of put the whole "pool" concept into explicit terms.

Mark:

Well, I'd call it a common pool except the dice the GM gives you should look different from the dice you gamble. The dice you gamble really do come from a common pool of d6s before going into your own pool, but the GM dice don't. See?

I aplogize for being slow to respond, but this has been a week of 12 hour work days...PLUS Saturday work! Ugh. I'm zonkered out of my skull.
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Zoetrope10
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« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2002, 06:27:07 AM »

Hey James

The latest rewrite is crisp and well structured.

I have some beatings:

1. By removing the need for a player-called roll to be tied to a trait, traits with nil bonus dice have little relevance. The rules are less elegant as a result.

2. Due to the 'in-game' connotations of the word 'conflict', the sentence 'Dice are cast to determine the general outcome of conflicts' is confusing. As I understand it, the only conflict is 'meta-game' -- dice are cast to see if you get some story telling power, not to determine the general outcome of conflicts occurring in the game world. The latter kinds of conflicts are determined by GM- or player-narration, not by casting dice; dice are cast only to determine who makes the narration. (Hell, this is hard to explain clearly)

3. Missing "Aha!'s". How does the GM decide how many dice to give? If I can show an obvious connection to more than one of my character's traits, can I add as many bonus dice to my roll? What happens if I run out of pool dice, in-game? Clarifying these kinds of questions will improve the game's newbie-friendliness.

regards, René
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James V. West
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Posts: 567


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« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2002, 12:34:41 PM »

Quote from: Zoetrope10

1. By removing the need for a player-called roll to be tied to a trait, traits with nil bonus dice have little relevance. The rules are less elegant as a result.


I don't really want to make a distinction between GM or player initiated rolls. For some reason it just mucks with me. However, I do see your point and its a point that's been made before. One solution I'm kicking around is requiring at least a +1 on every Trait. I think I had this in the rules before at some point but took it out. But this is still up in the air.

Quote

2. Due to the 'in-game' connotations of the word 'conflict', the sentence 'Dice are cast to determine the general outcome of conflicts' is confusing. As I understand it, the only conflict is 'meta-game' -- dice are cast to see if you get some story telling power, not to determine the general outcome of conflicts occurring in the game world. The latter kinds of conflicts are determined by GM- or player-narration, not by casting dice; dice are cast only to determine who makes the narration. (Hell, this is hard to explain clearly)


This is probably due to my very broad use of the word "conflict". I'll have to take a closer look at it and see if I can come up with a better way to describe it.

And yeah, it is hard to explain. I mean, sure, you *can* make a roll in The Pool for something as simple as trying to kick someone's ass, but its the follow through that's the kicker. And then there are times you just roll cause you want something particular to happen. No real conflict going on, just some gambling for story control (meta game conflict, yes). I find it very difficult to explain this concept in a way that everyone goes "Oh, ok. I get it.".

Quote

3. Missing "Aha!'s". How does the GM decide how many dice to give? If I can show an obvious connection to more than one of my character's traits, can I add as many bonus dice to my roll? What happens if I run out of pool dice, in-game? Clarifying these kinds of questions will improve the game's newbie-friendliness.


Thanks for pointing those "little things" out. I'll give the text another run through and see if I can answer these questions.
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Mark Withers
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Posts: 18


« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2002, 02:42:17 AM »

Quote from: James V. West


Mark:

Well, I'd call it a common pool except the dice the GM gives you should look different from the dice you gamble. The dice you gamble really do come from a common pool of d6s before going into your own pool, but the GM dice don't. See?



Yeah, but do you really need to name the players 'spare' dice?

At the simplest level, you have some gambling dice, which are a finite resource that you have to manage, and some trait dice, which you just pick up from pile in the middle of the table. It's preferable, but not essential, to have the two sets of dice look different because it reduces handling times when working out how many dice you have to return to your pool.

I still don't know why the dice are called 'GM dice'.

The GM doesn't have to roll any dice, right?
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James V. West
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Posts: 567


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« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2002, 06:21:28 PM »

Quote from: Mark Withers

I still don't know why the dice are called 'GM dice'.

The GM doesn't have to roll any dice, right?


True, the GM never rolls. I called them GM dice because the GM is the one who keeps them and hands them out. Since its a total meta-game term I don't see any reason why it doesn't work. But I'm open to suggestions.
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