Great Taste, Less Deadly

[Jake Norwood]

Bingo, Lance.

Lucien, too. I always refer to the contest between Harrison Ford, and Mel Brooks for the title of "most beat up artist ever". The truely heroic do get all battered.

That said, this does argue for wounds that can be overcome. How about allowing SAs to be used to cancel out pain as well as adding to your CP? That seems to be what's going on with Spidey in that climactic scene.

Call it a "cinematic" rule.

Mike

That's a great idea. Remember, though, that pain is represented in dice lost, and SAs in dice added...so it technically what it allready does.

Jake

[Mike Holmes]

Remember, though, that pain is represented in dice lost, and SAs in dice added...so it technically what it allready does.

No it doesn't. If I would get the dice for my pool anyhow, and it's reduced below that for pain, then the pain is still having an effect. It's a subtle but important distinction. Essentially, yes, I am saying that in the case of pain that SAs will double-count. That's not realistic (pain should always detract from performance). But it does follow the conventions of cinema well, and will allow characters to get seriously hurt, and still win. Which is what the poster is looking for, I think.

Should also work to cancel exhaustion penalties, BTW. They should still accumulate, but just get cancelled as long as the SA is in effect. I love the idea of the beat down, exhausted character coming back because of his passions, drives, beliefs, to strike down the opponent. And then to collapse in complete exhaustion.

Very nifty.

Mike

[ShaneNINE]

Wolfen brings up a good point: the GM can introduce opportunity for SA use. In the spidie example, having the GG mention MJ is like the GM saying "I'm going to give you a chance to use your SAs".

[Mokkurkalfe]

You could have some kind of SA super charge -when the GM lets you- that lets you use *all* your SA's in a dangerous situation. Only permitted when you are in deep trouble of course.
Since every SA will be affected by your death(usually in a negative way), it is not that far fetched, and will make the PC's a helluvalot harder to kill.

[toli]

Perhaps one could use the appropriate SAs +WP (or something like that) dice to roll vs pain.  Sucess would mean eliminating the pain modifiers for some number of rounds....

toli

[Mike Holmes]

Perhaps one could use the appropriate SAs +WP (or something like that) dice to roll vs pain.  Sucess would mean eliminating the pain modifiers for some number of rounds....

Complex, but very cool.

Mike

[Bob Richter]

How about allowing SAs to be used to cancel out pain as well as adding to your CP?

These actually amount to the same thing. In my way of thinking, pain and shock don't cut into your SAs.

I've actually literally had characters who were already dead (there was no chance of surviving their severe levels of blood-loss) win fights on SAs alone.

[Jake Norwood]

These actually amount to the same thing. In my way of thinking, pain and shock don't cut into your SAs.

I've actually literally had characters who were already dead (there was no chance of surviving their severe levels of blood-loss) win fights on SAs alone.

Ha! That rocks.

How about allowing SAs to be used to cancel out pain as well as adding to your CP?

Okay, now I see what you're saying, Mike. I think that as a cinematic rule that has really good potential. It just cranks the theme music louder. I'm cool wit' dat.

Jake

[Mike Holmes]

So what you're saying, Bob is that the minimum CP is equal to the currently applicable SAs? That's a cool alternative. But it does mean that it's only useful in a battle where you are giving nearly as good as you get. Because if I'm reduced to a low CP early, that's probably not going to keep me alive versus most uninjured opponents.

Examples (this is sorta simplified for effect)
Setup
Bob's Starting CP = 10
Applicable SAs = 5
Total starting CP = 15
First exchange, Bob takes 3 pain.
Second exchange Bob takes 5 more Pain
Third exchange Bob takes another 8 Pain

Using Bob's rules
After first injury CP is now = 12
After second injury CP is now = 7
After third injury CP is now = 5

Using Mike's rules
After first injury CP = 15
After second injury CP = 13
After third injury CP = 4

Which character is more likely to survive, and look cool doing it? What's really cool about what I'm proposing is that it can make for the nifty reversal. Let's say that the SAs don't kick in until after the second injury.

Using Bob's rules
After first injury CP is now = 7
After second injury CP is now = 5
After third injury CP is now = 5

Using Mike's rules
After first injury CP = 7
After second injury CP = 10
After third injury CP = 4

This also shows how my version also allows for further detriment after a reversal (in this case, the example says that the character was hit hard anyhow, and the result shows it).

The neatest would be usig the rolling method Toli mentoned. In that case, your SAs could keep you out of the fire indefinitely. Theoretically. They could also fail you at some point.

Mike

[Rattlehead]

One thing that seems (in my opinion) to be somewhat neglected in this thread is the "Intellectual Hero". Lance did nail it with his SpiderMan example, but lets look at other examples.

Someone (sorry, don't remember who) mentioned Indiana Jones. While Indy does often get the living crap beat out of him, he often prevails due to his intellect rather than his physical attributes or his beliefs (SAs). Of course, this sort of heroism is something that can't easily be played out in the game unless the player is clever. But, how many times have you been playing a game (of any sort) and had a clever idea that got shot down by the GM? So, it follows that the GM also has a responsiblity to be open to "Intellectual Heroism" from his players. While most people feel that the GM must remain neutral in their stance, I feel that the GM needs to want his players to succeed.

So, I guess this post boils down to a question: Is it possible to reflect "Intellectual Heroism" in game mechanics and, if so, how should it be done? Or perhaps a broader question is in order: Do players deserve mechanics that create heroes, or should the heroes be created through playing a character in a heroic way? In other words, Heroic gameplay is the reward for playing a character in a manner befitting a hero and reflecting the qualities that make a hero into... a Hero?

Ok, now I'm getting into philosophy rather than gaming.... I'll quit while I'm ahead! :-D

Brandon