some conceptual stuff

[greyorm]

When a point of humanity is lost (by increasing Lore

Well, this is the only problem I really have...it seems rather extreme.  I cannot have an extremely high Lore sorcerer under this rule-system...the progression is mechanistic 1-for-1, where usually the progression is more open and thus subject to (good) abuse.

Hence I suggest altering the above so that a Humanity check must be made when Lore increases.  Failing that check reduces Humanity.  This allows a sorcerer to push and strive for more power...there's always the possibility that they will come away unscatched from the experience, and that's what drives them.

But sometimes you can come back.  A kind GM may let you make a Will or Stamina (which ever is LOWER) check against your own Lore.  Failure means you are pretty much gone for good (until some story event intervenes).

I dunno about that...seems too arbitrary to just "off" a Sorcerer character like that, allowing some to come back and some not to dependent upon the whim of a die-roll.
It doesn't fit the Sorcerer grain, IMO.

Here's a question, after you Twist, is it possible to regain Humanity?

Actually, personally I'd prefer making Twist something that happens before you run out of Humanity.  That Slipping with Humanity intact leaves you with a Twist...perhaps make a conflict between Twists and Humanity.

[Jared A. Sorensen]

What if, upon reaching 0 Humanity, you were whisked away to demon realm #3458 and replaced with a demonic double. And nobody else's characters knew?

[Bailywolf]

greyorm:

I see what you're saying.  Its a toss for me right now.  Assume my mastery of the rules is pretty squishy at this point (I'm working from the Aprentice rules until my book gets here... as an aside HEY RON!  I WANT MY BOOK...WHAAAAAA).

As I figured humanity above, it is the total of both Will and Stamina, so a character begins with more than under the foundation rules.  Also, a character won't loose humanity for horrible acts of depravity or evil (other than sorcery of course).  I based this off the Aprentice version which offered a short list of possible trait values... which all ended up granting a humanity of 6 even after the 2 lore was subtracted.  Still, the Master Version does offer more powerful characters... so perhaps I'll reconsider.

Also, I wasn't even sure I wanted a Humanity trait at all... perhaps a list of Ties would be more in line with what I'm after... and instead of Twist as a stat, make it an oposing list of traits.... Hmmmmmm.

In the Aprentice version of Sorcerer that I'm cribbing from right now, it says that when a character's Humaity hits zero, the GM takes him over anyway... I figured offering a player the chance to return was a step up from the ole' GM character yank.  Perhaps the full version treats this some other way.

The idea of picking up Twists before loosing all Ties was something I'd kicked around, but was having trouble figuring out how or organize it.  One idea was that every time a sorcerer fails to resist a Slip, he makes a roll to determine how long it takes to return to normal reality... and can choose to gain a Twist in order to get home faster (ie, get bonus dice).  If a sorcerer gets twisted before loosing all ties... well, I'd want it to be a choice rather than something inflicted by dice.


The idea of loosing ties/humanity automaticaly with an imporving lore was my attempt to simulate a couple of things.  as one gains supernatural mastery, everything else in life becomes less and less significant (and thus, no longer serves to realy ground a sorcerer enough to be worth anything as a Tie).  Alos, Lore is dangerous, identity destroying stuff, and because of the Sway rules I'm kicking around, even more powerful than in normal Sorcerer games.

Do you have any suggestions to better handle the flaws you picked out?  

[Bailywolf]

Oh, jeepers.  Missed something in the last post.

I can't figure out how a character could add new ties... but the mechanisms for regaining humanity points could be adapted.  Perhaps at the end of a story arc, checks could be made to determine if a character has picked up a new tie... but one apropriate to the circumstances of the story.  a character who had to track a unique and dangerous book (actualy a demon which rewrites the minds of those which read it) across the country might pick up a genuine love of old books... or a terrible phobia of them.  Both would serve well as Ties.

Perhaps even if a character doesn't gain a new tie, but doesn't absolutly fail the 'regain humanity' check, he could instead replace one of his least used ties with one more relevent to his current life... this might help to keep a sorcerer dynamic and vital rather than the same static bunch of wacky quirks and obsessions.  Like a sorcerer who looses intrest in Elvis Memorabelia but becomes obsessed with his Ex-Girlfirend... super creepy, especialy when he has to realy focus on her, to get in her life to avoid a Slip.


And Jared... who knows what those alien bastards do to a sorcerer who Slips... what if you are never tha same, even after the first slip... just a slightly flawed copy who doesn't know...


Please keep the groovy commentary comming.

[Ron Edwards]

Hey Bailywolf,

I'm not trying to rain on your parade - I really like your ideas and think you're going to make a great Sorcerer GM.

My only point is that the game has a way of refining basic plans and premises into great things during play, and that what I've seen so far from you is more than enough to get going. So I'm saying, "Go, go!" essentially.

Best,
Ron

[Bailywolf]

Ron:

Gotcha.  I have a mind like a train wreck- the last car keeps moving even after the engine has plowed into the mountain.  

So, all I say about getting going is.... where's my book, eh?  Hmmm?  

[Mike Holmes]

Your humanity concept sounds similar in some ways to what I'm doing in developing Sorcerer& Space. You've taken it farther than I have, though, which is great. I too, have thought that the humanhity mechanics needed something to define the points individually; I hope that players will like my take on it as much as people seem to be warming to yours.

Mike Holmes

[Ben Morgan]

Three words: Playtest, Playtest, and Playtest.