Riptide: anatomy of a design, part 1 (long)

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Even more, more replies:

"Stat" names: I've had the 'jock, brain' discussion before (see the thread I referenced in my first post.) This is going to piss some people off in a serious way, but here's my opinion: those sort of appelations are used by people that have issues with high school. This isn't limited to gamers - I know normal 40-year-old mothers who will flip their shit if high school is brought up - but is pretty prevalent. Riptide isn't for those people: it's a love letter to two of the best times in my life - high school and attending the Defense Language Institute in Monterey, CA (which is a wizard's college of its own.)

Jared's clique idea: man, rock the hell on. That's a great idea.

[Jack Spencer Jr]

it's a love letter to two of the best times in my life

Oops. My usefulness to this has dropped considerable inlight of this. Fortunately, you don't have to ignore my previous posts because I wasn't working along those lines.

In that case, you should definately keep the magic in. It would probably like in Harry Potter about doors opening. New possibilities being discovered, that sort of thing.

Jared's clique idea: man, rock the hell on. That's a great idea.

Agreed. Jared, I doft my cap to you.

[thoth]

Scholastics? Yeah, synonym for Academics, but everyone in High School (in the US) knows the SATs...

Style for Cool?

Gift or Talent for Magic?

[talysman]

Scholastics? Yeah, synonym for Academics, but everyone in High School (in the US) knows the SATs...

Style for Cool?

Gift or Talent for Magic?

I think Cool is fine as is, although Talent for Magic might be good. as for Academics... heck, why not call this "SATs"?

one counterpoint, however, is that the grade system suggests to me that the names should be based on what you would find on a report card. but I'm not sure how you would do this, especially with course names already being used elsewhere on the sheet.

hmmm... do they still use things like "Citizenship" and "Demeanor" on report cards?

one other thing: I wouldn't worry about TfOS being re-released. sure, they used "Smarts". so did Toon. TfOS was inspired more by teen comedies, though, so it's not going to have the same feel as this game.

[szilard]

Hmmm...

Thinking about names  for the Scores (Athletics, Academics, Cool, Magic).

Did you want these to be closer to things you might find on a report card?

Some of them are easy - Athletics could be called "Physical Education" - but "Cool" isn't likely to be found on  a report card unless it is a cumbersome (and less evocative) comment like "Gets along with other students." I'd suggest just sticking to simple, non-gimmicky names.

As far as the Academics/Smarts distinction, the two names denote different (though overlapping) traits. I'm not sure which one you are going for here. I'd advise going with Smarts (though I dislike the word - it is slang that I've almost never actually heard used in conversation) and having a Bookworm perk which gives you a bonus for things you've studied.

~szilard

[Jared A. Sorensen]

Jared's clique idea: man, rock the hell on. That's a great idea.

Thanks.

Another idea: have the "clique points" cap at a certain level depending on the character's status within that group. A popular member of the clique gets more benefit from being surrounded by cronies than a minor member. Like, Nick Clixon (hahaha) is the football captain. He has a "Cool" of 10 which means he gets a maximum bonus of +10 when cronies lurk about. Edward Ronalds (the kicker...HAH!), on the other hand, only has a "Cool" of 5. Which means that even when surrounded by all the other football dudes, the most points he gets is 5.*

I'd also use a "guilt by association" method...which means that your clique points work against you when your clique gets into trouble (which is why bad guys with cronies never manage to win...the cronies get into trouble because they're kinda lame...then their boss gets into trouble as well and the shit hits the fan extra hard 'cause he's in charge). Or something...

Oh, and in case y'all haven't noticed...I think Riptide is gonna be great!

- J

*Names have been cleverly changed to protect the innocent. You gotta admit the "kicker" line was funny.

[scobie]

I think you are right, most magic systems seem stuck on being either too anal or too unstructered to actually be useful (and often contentious in intrepretation - 'but John you let Yoko turn back time last week').

How about turning the thing on its head?  Instead of defining what magic can do, what about saying what it can't - a list of taboos.   These could be metaphysical (can't cast spells in churches) or ethical (can't use magic to harm another) but the players could, in the course of development, challenge and overcome these taboos.  That might fit nicely with the coming of age themes.

The taboos could somehow be related, maybe a nested set or something?  Using the Pullman idea I can see how the basic taboo for daemons could start with "can't affect the material world" and progress to "can't effect humans" then "can't harm humans" and through to "can't kill humans".

As players overcome the taboos they get more power, but are left without an external moral compass and have to take responsibility for consequences of their actions.   I think these could be fun, not sure if it would work.

Scott

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Clinton,

When Mike asked, "What do you do in this game," an immediate answer popped into my mind: "You grow up."

High-school stories end up, in my opinion, being maturation-stories. Since the process includes many missteps, many different things to make choices about, and different possible solutions for different people, the "series," so to speak, can go on for a long time. But it seems to me that eventually, once it's clear where a character is going (what sort of grownup they're becoming), the basic story is over. It then either has to be a new type of story altogether (Buffy and Angel young-adult romance, e.g.), shift to another protagonist who hasn't matured yet, or end.

If I'm reading your game design correctly, then the middle option seems like a good one - can you see any process for phasing successful (meaning "fun") characters out as their personal rites of passage conclude? Does that seem consistent with the rest of the game?

Best,
Ron