Clandestine: Sore wa himitsu desu

[Wormwood]

I'm trying to work out a mechanic to generate secrets, or at least guide their generations. By secrets, I mean in particular specific actions that produce specific effects, based on hidden knoweledge of how the universe really works. There are no mechanics that govern the use of a secret, but there are some to determine what happens as the secret is discovered.

The Cardinal Rules of Secrets:

1) Secrets are hidden knowledge - a secret that is known, is powerless.

2) Secrets have consequences - a secret changes things, whether by influencing people, things, or reality as a whole.

3) Secrets are mysterious - secrets do not act in logical ways and they cannot be extrapolated to broader effects.

4) Secrets require action - secrets require action to be used, they cannot be simply a protection, they may be responsive, but never without an entity to use them.

5) Secrets create curiosity - the risk of any secret, is that it instills interest in it, eventually this will cause it's revelation.

The Evolution of Secrets:

True secrets, ever hidden, are things of Layer 05, the are unknown and unknowable, and so lie in the realm of the Ineffable. Once grasped by a meme the secret lies in Layer 04, a glimpse of an idea, a hint of a concept. If the meme uses it too often there is a risk of memetic force being applied to search it out, if revealed, it drops to Layer 03, it's existence unstable, or two beings may only keep a Secret, if one of them is dead. Eventually this state deposits the secret to Layer 02, making it an occult mystery, available to humanity. Here it is slowed and weakened, but carries some force. Inevitably though, the magic leaves the Secret and it drifts it's way to Layer 01. Perhaps these discovered Secrets are the birthing matter for new memes, rising to meet the Layer of it's distant birth. Perhaps they simply fade away.

Secrets are controlled by the Rule of Fives, they start at Layer 04 when the meme captures it. When known by more than one entity it drops to Layer 03. If known by five or more, it drops to Layer 02, if known by twenty-five or more, it drops to Layer 01, and remains there. Only be destroying the entities who know the secret, can it be returned to a higher Layer.

Making Secrets:

So here's the real question. Is it feasible to have players create their own secrets? Is it better to have a less mysterious method of mechanics? A list if the players are feeling less imaginative? Or perhaps simple guildines like those above will do?

Thank you for your time,

   -Mendel S.

[Mike Holmes]

I think those are fairly good guidelines. From that a GM and player should be able to hack out some good secrets.

Once again, it's hard to judge these things in the absence of a context. But, will the players each be responsible for one, or more than one. More than one may be taxing, as it is in other systems that make players come up with more than one such abstraction to be associated with their character. If y0ou can keep the number down, by all means, do.

Mike

[Wormwood]

Mike,

At the moment, the plan is for there to be three secrets per character. However I certainly plan to include an example list, which will more than handle a player who doesn't feel up to the process. But you bring up a second concern, does the presence of multiple secrets to a meme cause some loss of the special nature of secrets? There's nothing built in that prevents having only one, it's just with only one, there's more to lose when a secret is revealed. Three seemed a good number, gives several options, means a loss isn't the end of the world, and allows a meme to build them thematically. Do you think that's expecting too much from the players?

On a side note, I'm debating balancing the secrets at all, after all truly potent secrets will be chased down really quickly, while clever, less flashy ones will lie beneath radar.  Something both competative players and a decent GM, will manage in the game. Does it need any more to balance things?

Thank you for your comments,

  -Mendel S.

[Mike Holmes]

Do you think that's expecting too much from the players?

Probably not. But playtesting will really tell.

On a side note, I'm debating balancing the secrets at all, after all truly potent secrets will be chased down really quickly, while clever, less flashy ones will lie beneath radar.  Something both competative players and a decent GM, will manage in the game. Does it need any more to balance things?

Yes, frankly. I've seen the idea of making some character facet "disadvantaged" because it makes trouble for the character. Heck, "disadvantages" themselves fall under this category often. The problem is that, unless this is a very Gamist sort of game (could be, I'm not even really sure what it's about), it's not power balance we're worried about. It's protagonism balance.

As such, "disadvantages" are good things to the player.

So, to say that a player can take a big juicy secret, but that it'll be pursued more, really only makes it more attractive to all but the player who prefers Gamism. Classic example, in Hero System, disads give a player points to buy other stuff. But do player's shy away from them because they are "disadvantageous"? No, in fact the game has to limit their purchase because otherwise players would buy a thousand points worth. As the text rightly points out, "Disads" are not balanced against the powers that they purchase. They are encouraged with points simply because they make the character more interesting.

Know what? They overdid it. If they hadn't given points for taking them, some players still would. In Hero Wars, they are "free". You can take as many as you like. The text almost gets it right this time. To paraphrase: "Why would you take Flaws? Because characters are always getting in trouble. If you take Flaws you control a bit what sort of trouble you get into". What does this really mean? Flaws make a character more interesting, not less. As such, the only thing that they are negative for is "winning" and as such only "balance" negatively for players who prefer that mode of play.

Sorry to have made this into a semi-rant, but I needed to get that out.

The point is, for your game, that a player who takes a big nasty secret, and gets more attention from the baddies is going to have more "Screen time" and "protagonism". As such, there need to be thematic limits on what can be taken so as to balance out.

How that's going to work, and how these memetic characters are going to interact, I can't at all hazard a guess.

Mike

[Wormwood]

Mike,

I see your point about the advantage of disadvantages. In fact, it further fuels the reasons I had for tossing out Dark Secrets, because that's exactly the sort of thing they'd do. (I.e. secrets that only work on one meme, while interesting are somewhat excessive and don't really fit ow secrets are described.)

On the other hand, your concern about 'protagonism' balance doesn't seem to really apply in this case. The increase in screen time from a disadvantage is determined typically by the proactive nature of the disadvantage. Enemies number at the top of 'positive' disads in this case. Disads that tend to be more responsive, chiefly restraining or limiting a character's range of options are less desirable for this purpose, especially if the antagonism of them is indirect, like fragility and various general weaknesses. Of course they all present this effect.

Characters with big juicy secrets, will find themselves with a choice, use them sparingly, or risk them being revealed. There is no pursuit, rather it's like pulling out an flashy new toy in a playground, if you can't defend it, you're not likely to go home with it. Once the secret gets revealed, it's a near Sisyphian task to return it to it's pristine state. In practice a powerful secret gets discovered, it's use then calls a great deal of attention, several more memes discover it, and the balance of power necessiates even more memes trying to discover it. The original meme's fame increases slightly, as it's secret wafts away to myth. In a way, it's a social version of charges, giving more to weaker or more specialized secrets, and fewer to more potent and general ones. The fact that it's social in nature, connects it to the setting.

As far as GNS types are concerned, Clandestine is fundamentally Narrativist, but won't ever play that way, at least not alone. It can be tuned to play either strongly Simulationist (setting and system primarilly, because there's no real difference between these types) or strongly Gamist (having the played memes competing internally). In either case, a sense of balance is important.

  -Mendel S.

[Mike Holmes]

Cool.

I have to ask: do you understand just how inaccessible this all still is at this stage? I can usually visualize a game. In this case I see a dimly lit neon blue room with an neo-artdeco table in it, and something moving about in the room.

So, am I close? ;-)

Mike

[Wormwood]

Mike,

That's a good concern. In some ways Clandestine is three and two halves of a game system / setting. The upper three Layers are each a game system, built to be interchangeable statistics and results-wise. The bottom Layer is just narrative, but is accesessed by the meta-system of memetic strength.

I sort of view the game with all levels being constantly present with some focus on one at any given time. In practice though, each level will be clearly delineated, as will the transitions, to allow ease of understanding. I still expect this game to provide as many headaches as Continuum, so the difficulty in visualizing is not to surprising.

Take that board room and populate it with Uncle Sam, Anubis, and Kali, or at least their look alikes. Maybe a strange tentacles creture in the corner, and a few floating eyes, nodding to it.

One layer down from it, is James Bond's twin brothers all consulting four robed figures, each with large bronzed marks of office. One an eye of horus, one an hourglass, one a star burst, and one a seal of solomon.

One layer up the thin tentacled god is playing cards with a man in a wizards hat. The deck seems nearly bottomless, and each card is a face card, each a different face. The game seems a strange variant of Go Fish.

And at the bottom several computer systems all over the world leave a small message indicated the transfer of all classified files related to the Hermetic Order of Ogun, to the True Church of Jesus the Ever-living.

And on the roof, shrouded in night, a voice that is not a voice whispers something man was not meant to know, but someday will.

Hmm, I'm not sure if that will help, but it's how I see what's going on. And yes the game will come with the warning that it has not been approved by the FDA as a hallicinagen.

Thanks for your comments,

    -Mendel S.

[Mike Holmes]

Very pretty.

But it so doesn't help. Once I build a "character", what do I do with it? We can just pain pretty pictures all day, but I'm not seeing the conflict, or a channel for the players to swim down. Once play starts where does it go. Why will the players care?

Mike

[Wormwood]

Mike,

Well, there's a variety of things that can be done:

Cooperate to reveal a powerful meme's secret, for revenge, or for some other purpose.

Free trading at the Market Place of Ideas, or perhaps leading out services there or running security (a la M.Y.T.H. Inc).

Exploring any number of distant lands, from ancient myth worlds, to the dreams of potential visionaries, to occult fortresses hidden deep in their own mysteries.

Conpiracy gardening in a given portion of terrestrial affairs, i.e. growing the stuff you want, and tearing down the 'weeds' of those you don't want being involved.

Dealing with familial obligations, after all since bodies have Generative Organs they could in time produce new memes (and often do, in practice). Normally this beholds the child to it's parent meme, but when the body is in contest, things get really complicated.

Feuds, gladitorial combat, skulldugery. Due to the Layered nature of memetic conflict, combat has great depth, in Dragon Ball Z fame, a single combat could take several sessions (of course in Physical reality the combat could take anywhere from a few weeks to over a decade.)

Those are just the most direct ideas I've come up with so far. I see the world of Clandestine to be complex and full of wonderous things. In many ways that is the key to the game. The system and the setting supporting each other (slipping into Speculative Physics mode there) and the setting is meant to provide a solid framework for the layer-shifting, the nature of secrets, and the social ramifications of a given course of action.

This game is looking like one of the longest I've set out to write.

Thanks for your comments,

   -Mendel S.