RPGnow's new POD system

[Clinton R. Nixon]

For those who aren't familiar, RPGnow is a website that sells PDFs online. Basically, you create your game, give them a copy, and they handle all fulfillment for you for a 30% cut of your profit. (This is different from the Forge Bookshelf in that you still handle fulfillment with the Forge Bookshelf - it merely enables you to do so.)

They announced a print-on-demand program yesterday. In short, they will print copies of your game at cost and warehouse them. These hard copies will be sold off their website per normal, and they handle fulfillment. They still take 30% cut, and you pay for the POD copies when you order them.

This idea, to me, is pretty revolutionary. It enables anyone willing to accept the 30% cut to make hard copies of their indie game and sell it without negotiating with printers or dealing with fulfillment. Like the traditional three-tier system, it has its downfalls (loss of control and loss of profit) but has its benefits, as well (easy distribution).

I'm not interested in inputs of "I would/would not use this" or "this is good/bad," but I am interested in whether people think this will have a big impact on the indie game community and what that impact will be.

From a personal standpoint, it means I may be offering hard copies of Paladin and Donjon very soon.

[Steve Dustin]

I thought the quality of print on demand was pretty bad, and that's why it's not more widespread. I think Chaosium tried it through Amazon (I have a couple of their POD titles) and they canned it.

Of course, this is all gossip -- I don't work for Chaosium, nor do I really know anything about print on demand. It's just what I heard.

Take care,

Steve Dustin

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Steve,

POD can vary greatly in quality, depending on the printer. I'm not certain, but from my understanding, RPGnow is just using a local printer in Wisconsin. Personally, I've had a great experience with local print shops.

Best,
Clinton

[Cynthia Celeste Miller]

RPGnow's POD program could make indie games more mainstream or at least more visible to the casual gamer.  It might bring indie rpg's to a new level, providing the print quality is good.

If, on the other hand, the print quality is poor, it could hurt people's opinions on indie games as a whole.  Too many people judge the entire "movement" (for complete lack of a better word) by the few indie games they see.  And if the few games they see look bad, they might very well judge all indie games by this standard.

Of course, this is pure conjecture, but it's something to think about.

Hopefully, though, the print quality will be high or at least decent, as this will reflect positively on the indie scene IMO.

[quozl]

As a customer, I'm interested.  Let's say I ordered the Donjon pdf and also wanted a hardcopy.  How much would RPGNow charge me?

Also, has anyone actually seen a sample book from RPGNow so as to see the actual quality?

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Jon,

I haven't seen one yet - they just started the program two days ago. Also, the publisher (me, for example) gets to decide on paper stock, color vs. b/w cover, inserts, and all other sorts of things, so the quality is partially decided by me.

One thing I didn't make exactly clear about this program is that ordering of new books is done by the publisher, and warehousing and fulfillment is done by RPGnow. Because of that, the publisher sets the price, and not all PDFs on RPGnow will have associated hard copies.

[Paul Czege]

Hey Clinton,

...and all other sorts of things...

Is binding one of those things? I've become rather partial to saddle stitched books.

Paul

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Is binding one of those things? I've become rather partial to saddle stitched books.

Yep. In the interest of public info, I'll post a list of everything you can choose when designing your hard copy with them.

1. Size - only 8.5x11 inches.
2. Paper - 50lb, 60lb, or 70lb white
3. Binding - saddle stitch or perfect binding
4. Covers - color or b/w, also color or b/w interior cover (for saddle stitch only)
5. Other - 4 page color insert in the middle of your book, CDROM in sleeve insert

[Matt Machell]

This is an interesting development. One thing I note from visiting RPGNow is that it's not exactly been broadcast yet. But it's certainly something for me to consider since many gamers are hypnotised by "the book".

Are there any limits/minimums on pagecount, and what kind of price do books end up?

-Matt

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Are there any limits/minimums on pagecount, and what kind of price do books end up?

There's no minimum on page count, and it's a 64-page limit on saddle stitching and 500-page limit on perfect binding. As far as price, I'm going to compute it for Donjon real quick:

For an 82-page 60lb-stock color-cover perfect-bound book, I'm looking a $3.36/book. The minimum order is 10 books, and there's some credit card fees and shipping, so the total is 46.82.

If you want to look at the worksheet I used to get these prices, I've uploaded it to http://www.anvilwerks.com/rpgnow_pod.xls in Excel format.

[Valamir]

Having just gone through the process of getting print quotes for Universalis...thats a pretty damn good price for a run that small.  You could easily drop it a buck-buck and a half with a 1000 copy print run...but not having to front the capital and hold the inventory is a huge plus.

[Mike Holmes]

Holy crap that's cheap! For such short runs, I doubt you can beat that. I suppose that they are willing to charge less so that they can make their profit on the sales. Still, it seems like a pretty big gamble to me on thier part. I assume that they have some deal with the printer...

That all said, I found dealing with a printer to be pretty easy (just a bunch of phone calls). The only real benefit I see is the combination of services. Which may well be worth the 30% cut to some developers.

The neat thing is that they have an incentive to ensure that the printer does a good job as that will increase their profits.

Clinton, I see this as pretty much indie. You are putting up the funds, and I assume you control the game afterwards (or do they?). As such, I just see this as a complicated form of outsourcing. Much as if you wnt to a printer yourself, and then found some site to sell your game for a cut. As such, I don't think it violates The Forge's definition of Indie.

Mike

[quozl]

So can you get books made cheap and then distribute them through Wizard's Attic to get them in stores or is there some exlusive arrangement?

[Clinton R. Nixon]

The arrangement is only with RPGnow - the books can only be sold on their site (and RPGshow.com, which is part of their site network.) They have mentioned that they will sell a portion of them to the creator at cost, which is good for conventions and the like.

Mike, you're right about this being indie. I think it's the biggest thing to happen to the publishing/distribution side of indie games ever, to be honest. And it is dirt cheap - I paid basically $10 a pop for my print run of 50 copies of Donjon. I made that back, but it was a heavy outlay. With this pricing, I could sell Donjon for $15 and make more than the $10 PDF. You can get a large print run cheaper through other printers, but for people who don't want 1000 copies, this works well.

One feature I like is that they will notify you if your warehouse stock goes below X, where you define X. This way, people without a lot of outlay - like me for example, with my unemployment - can keep stock in the warehouse indefinitely, paying, in my case, $50 to buy 10 more whenever I get low.

[Ted E. Childers]

What sort of contractural obligation are you in with RPGnow when you sign up for this?  Do you have to deal exclusively with them, or can you have them POD your book while you run your own print runs for other distributors?  

It would be nice to have your book at RPGnow for the online community.  It would also be nice to sell your book at (at least) local gaming shops.