Combat Sim query

[Aaron]

Is it a mistake in the combat sim that if both fighter throw red dice for initiative it resolves that phase and goes straight back to throwing for initiative and dice refresh without playing out the second phase of the round?  It also happens when one combatant chooses not to defend but attacks instead.  
So if Stefan attacks and arming guy decides not to defend but attacks back it resloves the effect for each then goes straight to refresh.
Aaron

[Brian Leybourne]

Nope, that's the way it's supposed to work. In an attack/attack situation, combat rounds only last a single exchange.

Brian.

[Aaron]

That's interesting.. Did you know that it makes beat an obsolete maneuver?  Likewise Toss in nearly all cases wont work either.
Let me explain.  Stefan chooses beat and puts 8 dice into it.  All Arming Guy has to do is declare a 1 pt atack to anywhere, and he is going to have the dice as its the 1st phase.  Stefan gets heaps of successes effectively stopping Arming guys attack knocking his sword aside etc.  But because arming guy chose to attack we go to partial pause initiative and refresh where both fighters get ALL their dice back.

Same with toss.  As long as the person at the receiving end can take any kind of swing at all all dice a refreshed and the toss does nothing.  
Since dodging a toss is pointless( Lets throw away a die so we get a 4 in 10 chance of not having to throw one away....?) the only way to combat a toss is not defend but attack.

This short round seems to give the fighter without initiative a HUGE advantage.  My opponent and I have 12 dice each and both use sword and shield.  I have init and attack with 7 dice.  My opponent automatically decides to use sim block strike.  He put 8 into block and 4 in attack.  So we resolve that phase and somehow my opponent missed me.  he used all his dice and I had 5 remaining but do I get to run him through. No, we go to refresh!  This effectively means that the fighter without initiative can put all his dice into the 1st phase without fear of retribution.

[Brian Leybourne]

Die pool penalties from beats, duck and weaves, tosses et al are applied AFTER dice get refreshed, not before. Otherwise you would be correct.

So, to use your example...

Let me explain. Stefan chooses beat and puts 8 dice into it. All Arming Guy has to do is declare a 1 pt atack to anywhere, and he is going to have the dice as its the 1st phase. Stefan gets heaps of successes effectively stopping Arming guys attack knocking his sword aside etc. But because arming guy chose to attack we go to partial pause initiative and refresh where both fighters get ALL their dice back.

Lets say that Stefan's successful beat means that Arming guy should lose 6 dice. The next round starts, both fighters refresh their dice fully, and then Arming Guy loses 6 dice. Ouch, that's even worse because he's down CP dice and has two exchanges to worry about before his next refresh...

Try out the combat sim, and you'll see how it works.

Brian.

[Wizdoc]

I should point out that the sim has a little bug in it.

There are times when one of the combatants has ran out of Dice Pool, he still has to make a choice of the maneuver. But since the pool is empty, no action can be selected - this leads to a situation where the whole thing is deadlocked and the only possiblity is to close the program and start over.


Wizdoc

[Brian Leybourne]

It's not a bug - I can't always force a player to keep dice for the second exchange. If you have no dice left as the offensive player, all you do is click "Make no attack", which passes control to the other player.

No deadlock.

Brian.

[Aaron]

Try out the combat sim, and you'll see how it works.

Brian.

How can they be applied after refresh if the loss on beat and toss is immediate...?
So I just tried the sym again.  Arming guy has 13 CP uses them all in a beat. Stefan chooses to thrust back with all of his 10.  Arming guy gets 7 successes causing Stefan to loose 14 dice.  As the beat is successful Stefan's attack does not go through.  But since both declared an attack we end the round early, roll init and refresh and.......Stefan has all 10 CP again..hmmm...
Same thing with toss...Neither carry over into refresh if initative dice are thrown.
I have had a problem similar to Wizdoc but only when one combatant has run out of dice due to shock or pain and has none even after refresh.  He  accidently throws red dice initative and 'make no attack' is not an option.

[Brian Leybourne]

How can they be applied after refresh if the loss on beat and toss is immediate...?
So I just tried the sym again.  Arming guy has 13 CP uses them all in a beat. Stefan chooses to thrust back with all of his 10.  Arming guy gets 7 successes causing Stefan to loose 14 dice.  As the beat is successful Stefan's attack does not go through.  But since both declared an attack we end the round early, roll init and refresh and.......Stefan has all 10 CP again..hmmm...
Same thing with toss...Neither carry over into refresh if initative dice are thrown.

(checks) Actually you're right.

*shrug* Better ask the game designer. I'm just the guy who puts in into the PC.

I have had a problem similar to Wizdoc but only when one combatant has run out of dice due to shock or pain and has none even after refresh.  He  accidently throws red dice initative and 'make no attack' is not an option.

Make no attack didn't seem to be a valid option when you throw a red die to me, which is why it's not in there. You have a valid point, but the simple answer is not to throw a red die if you have no dice in your CP :-)

Maybe next time I update (after I finish the character generator) I'll put in a check to see if the player has zero dice in his CP, and if so refuse to let him throw red.

Brian.

[Aaron]

b]Make no attack[/b] didn't seem to be a valid option when you throw a red die to me, which is why it's not in there. You have a valid point, but the simple answer is not to throw a red die if you have no dice in your CP :-)


Brian.

Well I did say I threw it by mistake!! lol..What can I say, I'm a red die kinda guy.

[Irmo]

Maybe next time I update (after I finish the character generator) I'll put in a check to see if the player has zero dice in his CP, and if so refuse to let him throw red.

How about an "undo" option to undo your last click? I occasionally found myself in a position where that would have been necessary -e.g. clicking a specific maneuver only to find out that CP penalties I didn't think of make any such maneuver impossible.

[655321]

I second the undo option. It woudl be nice.

Alos, would it be possible to add the ability to use a die from your CP on a slash/bash for extra damage to the sim?

[Brian Leybourne]

How about an "undo" option to undo your last click? I occasionally found myself in a position where that would have been necessary -e.g. clicking a specific maneuver only to find out that CP penalties I didn't think of make any such maneuver impossible.

There should be no situations where you click a maneuver and it lets you, then tells you you have no dice left to make the maneuver - when you click the button it checks if you have enough CP dice, taking all the penalties into account.

Having said that, I guess it's possible that somehting slipped through the cracks (it's a pretty large beast, that sim). An undo button wouldn't that hard to code in there, but finding space on those little attack/defense panels will be tricky :-)

Alos, would it be possible to add the ability to use a die from your CP on a slash/bash for extra damage to the sim?

Yeah, I thought about that. Same problem as above, finding the space on the form. I'll see what I can come up with.

As I said before, the next version of the sim is a while away though, I need to sort out the AI (which is making my head spin.. yee gods there are a lot of things to consider) and also at the moment I'm working on the character generator - I thought the sim was hard to code - just think about all the very variable nationality bonuses and suchlike and pity me. Still, it's coming well and I should have a v1 in a few weeks or so.

Brian.