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Author Topic: Start to finish: Theory of Game design  (Read 2769 times)
Jimmy the Barrel
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Posts: 3


« on: May 02, 2001, 08:31:00 AM »

I am a wanna be game designer, and I have enormous amounts of notes on various ideas for games. These include: system notes, setting and style. But, they never seem to form a cohesive whole.

My question is:
Where do you start on game design?

I know that people approach this from different angles. I just want to get an idea of how YOU approach this, and WHY.

What are the ideas that get you started?
Is it setting, system, style or other?
Why?

Thanx
Jimmy the Barrel
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Growing up is optional.
Dav
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« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2001, 10:02:00 AM »

I always start with the concept.  I mean, what is it that characters can DO in your game (yeah, yeah, say "anything" and I punch you in your mouth).  All games have a standard conceptual standpoint.  It can be through character type (i.e. Sorcerer), or by plot/setting (i.e. Obsidian), or by victimization (i.e. Call of Cthulhu :smile: ).

Once you have that down, then worry about "how" the characters interact with the world (read: mechanics).  Then setting (unless it's your core concept), then style/layout/other.  Yeah, well, that's my approach anyway.  The style element more or less works itself out based on other layers of the decision-making process.  

Outline it, then fill in the topics and subtopics.  

Yeah, I know, pretty straightforward, but don't mess with it if it isn't broken.

Dav
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JSDiamond
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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2001, 04:19:00 PM »

First, I begin with the idea of 'this is the kind of world I'd love to visit and maybe even live in' and go from there. The setting may also include some framework of a premise or plot.

Finally, I try to tailor a system to the setting and/or premise.  My reasoning is that the system (and the GM for that matter) should be as invisible as possible.

Hope that helps.

Jeff Diamond
http://www.geocities.com/allianceprime">6-0 Games  
 

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JSDiamond
GreatWolf
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Posts: 1155

designer of Dirty Secrets


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« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2001, 05:58:00 PM »

I agree with Dav.  You need to start with your concept.  What is the game about?  The best mechanic idea is useless unless it is supporting a concept of some sort.

I'm actually going to cheat and talk about the wargame that I designed (called Junk).  The summary:  you pilot a mech-type vehicle called a 'Can that is built from scrap and jury-rigged components and has an engine that is fueled by beer.  A big idea behind the game is that you spend as much time holding your own 'Can together as you do dealing out the damage.  (Hmm.  A game devoted to saving your 'Can....  :smile:)

Anyways, I felt that a different system needed to be designed to reflect the inherent instability of the 'Can.  Therefore I invented the concept of Whuppin'.  Rather than tracking specific damage to each location on the 'Can, only critical damage is tracked.  Instead, when "damage" is dealt, the overall level of Whuppin' goes up, which increases the chance of taking critical damage.  This represents the effects of the constant pounding on the jury-rigged components in the 'Can.

I'm obviously summarizing a bit.  However the point that I want to make is that I could not have designed that system in the first place if I didn't already have a concept in the first place (in this case, jury-rigged mechs).

That being said, I recommend stashing ideas for future reference.  You never know when you might have a use for them.  Think of it being analagous to a writer keeping a notebook of ideas.  You never know when one might come in handy.

Hope this is helpful.

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Seth Ben-Ezra
Dark Omen Games
producing Legends of Alyria, Dirty Secrets, A Flower for Mara
coming soon: Showdown
Ron Edwards
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« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2001, 06:51:00 AM »

Hi Jimmy,

Basically, your question is too big. You are very much in the position of someone looking around at all the variety of music available, and stating an interest in inventing your own instrument.

Notice that I did not say, "in being a musician." As a role-player, you already are. The RPG itself is only an instrument.

So the REAL questions - and believe me, we are MILES from system, setting, or anything like that - are as follows:

Why make a new instrument? What's the problem with existing ones? Is there some sort of music you wish to see played by others? Can you make an instrument that does that? Why?

If your answer is, "Because it must be cool to be adored like Gary Gygax [or whoever, maybe Peter Adkison is the new focus for this praise]," or, "Because it'd be great to make money by doing this," then I, at least, don't have much to say that can help.

But your answers to the questions I'm asking MAY be the sort of answers that amaze me. Dav and his partner Micah certainly amazed me with the energy they poured into Obsidian's psychic/religious rules. Robin Laws and Greg Stafford amazed me with the innovations and scope of Hero Wars. John Wick amazed me with his ability to generate consumer support, and for using fiction constructively in an RPG. Jeff Diamond amazed me with the zest and skill he brought to Orbit. Doug Bolden amazed me with the pure & playable beauty of Ghost Light (in a few scrubby pages!).

Non-independent RPGs have never amazed me in this light, with the exceptions of Over the Edge and Everway (and they have a basis for their exceptional status). I suggest that creator-owned RPGs are where we get the innovations and developments that lend ANY quality to this hobby at all. I suggest that you may be capable of contributing astounding things, and I'd love to see them.

But it only happens by answering the questions I've listed above. And just to keep the hyenas from my door, "system" and "setting" are among the means for answering.

The thing to avoid, I think, is to HAVE a system or setting or whatever WITHOUT answering those questions.

Best,
Ron
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Jimmy the Barrel
Registree

Posts: 3


« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2001, 09:11:00 AM »

Ok, to reply.

First let me say thank you for your answers.
While not much different from what I am currently doing, they at least tell me that I am not wandering down the wrong road(if there even is a wrong road).

To answer Ron,

I am not looking for fame, fortune or cool factor in designing a game. I have some ideas for setting and system that I think would work well and *I* have not seen them used to date. I want to design a game more to see if I can, and to see how my ideas work, not for any other pursuit.

There really is nothing *wrong* with the systems that I have played, they just don't strike the right notes. They don't offer the right mix of rules and setting for me.

I like rules and I like flexability (is that a contradiction?). However, all of the systems I like give you great character generation rules and horrendous (sp?) combat rules.
An example is Heros. I love the Heros character creation system. It gives a lot of flexability and helps me define my character. Yes, I like the accounting. But the combat for this system is sluggish and cumbersome. Same with GURPS.
I realize both of these are generic systems, but I am going more for the fantasy side.

Yes, I could go with Fuzion and get what I want by changing combat plug-ins. But, I want to see how my ideas for this type of game work out. I would rather see if I can create my own system rather than redesign a system that *may* work for me, and even then, would not be my own.

 
Jimmy the Barrel
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Growing old is mandatory,
Growing up is optional.
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