Jake: Proficiencies question

[Brian Leybourne]

This is really a question for Jake, but I thought I would put it here so everyone can see the answer and thus benefit from it.

When I'm assigning proficiencies and working out defaults, you have said in the past that all the best default applies in all cases, is that right? So if I have 5 in one style with -1 to style X, and 7 in another style with -4 to style X, I can use 4 as my default in style X (from the 5-1), right? Even though the second style has more points actually spent in it?

The reason I ask is, consider this example:

I have priority A in proficiencies, so 14 points. I put 7 points into Case of Rapiers. This gives me several good defaults, not the least of which is 6 in Rapier.

Now, I put the other 7 points in Rapier. This gives me 13 total in Rapier (7 plus the 6 default), but more importantly, those 7 points give me a default of 6 in Case of Rapiers.

So... both Rapier and Case of Rapiers have totals of 13 (and that's before I add my Reflex). That seems a little good for 14 points.. am I doing it the right way?

edit: Hmm.. now that I think about it.. that would make sense as long as the maximum score you can end up with is 7/8 (including points added AND defaults) rather than the maximum points you can add being 7/8 and then adding defaults to that... is that how it's supposed to happen?

Brian.

[Ashren Va'Hale]

I think the max prof that you can have in any weaponduring character creation  is 8. end of story.

[Jake Norwood]

Yeah, the limits still apply, even after defaults. I'd also say that you can only default from Profs you've actually put a point in, so you can't default to dagger then to wrestling w/o paying a point of dagger in-between.

Jake

[655321]

Brain,

It does not seam to me that the defaults should apply twice. In your example there is a looping of the defaults. This problem only happens during character creation, and I would say that you could not raise a proficincy though defaults above the original default.

For example: Case of Rapiers 7 points (prof 7), rapier 1 point (prof 7), etc. However, I would not let you put 7 in Case and 2 in rapier and get an 8 rapier.

As a side note, I personally can not think of anywhere in the book where it actually says defaults effect buying proficincies during creation (but I might just not remember); tho, I think it is a good idea to do so.

[Shadeling]

Brain,

It does not seam to me that the defaults should apply twice. In your example there is a looping of the defaults. This problem only happens during character creation, and I would say that you could not raise a proficincy though defaults above the original default.

For example: Case of Rapiers 7 points (prof 7), rapier 1 point (prof 7), etc. However, I would not let you put 7 in Case and 2 in rapier and get an 8 rapier.

As a side note, I personally can not think of anywhere in the book where it actually says defaults effect buying proficincies during creation (but I might just not remember); tho, I think it is a good idea to do so.

It has been said many times, through Jake and even in the book, Defaults do affect Prof buying. Example-I take Sword and Shield at Level 8. Now I default Greatsword at -2, Giving me a Default Prof of 6. If I desire to put points into that, I can throw 2 in there and also have an 8. Same thing if using SA points to up a Default-it is like you already have some levels in it for purposes of learning. So yes, if you have a Default of 4 in something, you can spend 4 SA points and get a 5. Once you actually spend points on a Default, they are no longer, defaults.

[Jaif]

Let me understand this - you spent 14 points, getting your rapier & case of rapier skills to 13.  Had you spent 13 points in either, you'd have the other at 12 anyway, right?

So:

14 - 13 rapier, 13 case
13 - 13 rapier, 12 case

I don't see how you gained in your example anyway.

Btw, I'd never let a player double-dip like that.  I'm an evil fascist that way. :-)

-Jeff

[Brian Leybourne]

You're entirely right, Jaif. I was having a blonde moment brought on by too little sleep and too much caffine. I do know that assigned+default can't go above the 7/8 cap (depending on whether you have an A in proficiencies or not), but was too fuddled to think about what I was asking :-)

It'll be worth it in the end. The CharGen is shaping up nicely.

Brian.

[655321]

It has been said many times, through Jake and even in the book, Defaults do affect Prof buying. Example-I take Sword and Shield at Level 8. Now I default Greatsword at -2, Giving me a Default Prof of 6. If I desire to put points into that, I can throw 2 in there and also have an 8. Same thing if using SA points to up a Default-it is like you already have some levels in it for purposes of learning. So yes, if you have a Default of 4 in something, you can spend 4 SA points and get a 5. Once you actually spend points on a Default, they are no longer, defaults.

Thanks for the explanation. However, what I was saying is that nowhere in the book (at least the one I have) does it say defaults apply at character creation. It does say you "get free point in them" but it also says "(allowing you to train "from defaults," elaborated upon in Book Three)." Nowhere in book three does it talk about buying with default at creation, only buying with Insight points. I agree that it is a good idea to use defaults at character creation, other wise you can end up "wasting point" (especially with proficiencies in A). I also agree the book does not discount the idea, just that it does not say it.

[toli]

If I remember correctly, I could not find any cases where defaulting through a default (that is cut and thrust to dagger to pugilism or something) would get you a proficiency higher than just defaulting strait to that weapon from you best proficiency (cut and thrust to pugilism).

I could easily be wrong...