Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Started by lumpley, February 03, 2003, 03:30:28 PM
Quote from: xiombargBut if that's the case, does that mean a metagame component in a Narrativist game can be used to cause a game to creep in a Simulationist direction? Or is the possibility of "creep through metagame" unique to Simulationist play?
Quote from: Mike HolmesQuote from: xiombargBut if that's the case, does that mean a metagame component in a Narrativist game can be used to cause a game to creep in a Simulationist direction? Or is the possibility of "creep through metagame" unique to Simulationist play?Sure, theoretically. But it all depends on the particular design. If a metagme mechanic is designed correctly, it can be made such that it requires a lot of effort (if not quite making it impossible), to ignore the Narrativist questions that it posits.
Quote from: Ron EdwardsSo what might be a reward system that really rewards the player? Let's get away, or mostly away, from "character gets better at to-hit." Director power? Feh. Only in a game which has that as an important mechanic, which remains mainly terra incognita for Sim game design at this point. I'm thinking we should turn our attention to the already-existing Metagame component of characters in the first place - their "situated-ness" in the game-world. Contacts, DNPCs (to use Champs talk), Hunters/Enemies, social status, relationships with the law ...
Quote from: Ron Edwards1) Nothing in any of my theorizing, anyway, relies on a distinction between "conscious" and "unconscious" elements.
Quote2) In the section you quoted, when I'm talking about Effectiveness, I'm talking about something very specific, as outlined in the GNS essay. I'm talking about values or capabilities on the character's sheet which are used for resolution.<snip>I think you're applying the term "effectiveness" too broadly, using it in the common sense of "important" or "useful." I'm using it in the technical sense that I defined, such that I think your friend exemplifies and corroborates my point rather than refutes it.
Quote- Social rank: nobleman is a Metagame element
Quote from: clehrichSo in the straight AD&D Greyhawk world, didn't actual people go around town saying, "Wow, that guy over there looks like a seriously powerful Lawful Evil Fighter, better steer clear of him"?Of course, it's a weird way to imagine a world in the first place, but I really think they were trying to Sim that very strange world. In fact, I'm getting all warm and fuzzy about that bizarre world.... <please, this is a cry for help!>
Quoteone or some members of the group subtly breaking the Social Contract away from GNS preferences of the other members
Quote from: Ron EdwardsMike, you're making it harder than it is by confounding Effectiveness with "important." Identifying a character-component as Metagame (alone or in combination with Effectiveness, Resource, or both) does not mean that it lacks utility in play. Effectiveness refers to designations of competence for purposes of system-driven resolution.
Quoteplot developments occurring by causal happenstance or authored by the GM