Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Started by lumpley, February 03, 2003, 03:30:28 PM
Quote from: Ron's Sim EssayLayering may be employed to establish and identify the character's plausibility in terms of the game-world itself. For a look at the historical differences among games, compare the methods for establishing player-character skill competence in early RuneQuest (Simulationist) with those of Hero Wars (Narrativist). In Hero Wars, the system limits how many of the thirty or so starting abilities are assigned high values (two really good ones and one great one), but not which ones. Whereas in RuneQuest, every skill has a starting-character value based on its commonality and difficulty to learn, and every skill is rated in money regarding learning higher values of competence, based both on difficulty to learn and who teaches the skill. Hero Wars character creation, which is minimally layered, isn't concerned with the implausibility of having a mastery-level in Greatsword be just as "likely" as having it in Farming; RuneQuest character creation, which is maximally layered, emphatically is. To repeat, the above point is historical. Whether the distinction I've drawn holds for any and all Simulationist play potential, I don't know.
QuoteAlthough I agree in full with Mike's and Chris' comments above, in fact am greatly appreciative of them, this aesthetic-engineering value can be recognized as a possible goal as well, such that aggressively point-based Sim design might not necessarily be a "poor second" to the pure-transparency unreachable ideal.
Quote from: Mike HolmesNow, some of you may be seeing a big problem comng down the road. And that is that, given what I've delineated, nearly all Sim games suffer from the "problem" of a hybrid Sim/Gamist design. The question is, when is this actually a problem, and when is it a feature? Can one design a Sim game that is not a hybrid? Are there any at all?
Quote from: Mike HolmesAnd a worse question. What is the reward system in a Sim game? ... If it does simulate some action, then it's just the outcome of the system in application, and no more rewarding particularly than the GM announcing that a character has successfully entered a bar after a player announced his intent that said character was trying to enter.
Quote from: After some considerations about the inherent gamism of existing sim designs, Mike HolmesAnd a worse question. What is the reward system in a Sim game?
Quote from: JMendesMike, in your opinion, do the final points in that thread address this question and your considerations?
Quote from: Mike HolmesAs such, it's no surprise that players like Vincent and myself see no need for point systems. They are not informative in a useful manner (at least none I've ever seen), and they almost always make creation of the character envisioned difficult.
Quote from: ValamirSo I don't think that "no metagame" is part of a definition of Sim, I think it is a common way Sim games defend against non sim creep.