Spin System: inspired by The Pool, TROS, and Princess Bride

[Jeph]

Remember, 15 trait points allows a character with 3 Traits at 5, which is a bit over the top for even high-powered games. maybe the incriment should be a bit smaller--3 or 4 points, perhaps?

The rules clause:

"If the GM wishes, they may allow characters to spend a smaller or larger number of points on Traits, in accordance with the setting being used, and the 'feel' of the game that is going to be run. However, it is not reccomended that the GM ever allow characters to spend more then twenty (?) points on Traits.

In all cases, a character's Spin Modifier is equal to the number of unspent points, plus one. Regardless of how many Trait points are left unspent, a character's Spin Modifier may never excede five."

. . . which brings up the question of traits that do excede five. Should this be allowed? My inclination is to say no. Any thoughts on the matter?

[Brian Leybourne]

I would probably not let players ever start with more than one trait at 5, after all they have to have something to work towards :-) That's just personal view though, not something that should necessarily be in the rules (although, if you like it...). This solves the problem of more starting points, but you could certainly limit the point upgrades to 3 or 4 if you like.

As for traits above 5... most certainly not. In fact, I'm a little puzzled as to why you even suggest it, since a trait of 6 means automatic success with every die, unless I missed something...?

Brian.

[Jeph]

I was thinking that if I did include them (which I most likely won't) it would have some other effect. For instance, a each point of trait above five increases the maximum number of dice that Spin can add to a roll by one, or something. But it doesn't really matter, since I won't put it in the rules anyway.

I'll proabaly add a warning about multiple traits at 5, but not make the limit to one such trait mandatory.

[Brian Leybourne]

Must be just about time to write up V3 of the rules then...? :-)

Brian.

[Jeph]

Sure thing. I'll have them up later tonight or tomorrow evening . . .

[Brian Leybourne]

Actual Play report Here.

Brian.

[Jeph]

Great! Maybe after a bit of discussion I can finally get around to v1.3! :D

[Palaskar]

Hi there, this is Palaskar. Lemme just weigh in with a couple of opinions.

Keep the turnless combat. It's actually more flexible and elegant than turn-based combat, since you can apply all sorts of off-the-cuff rulings, without having to resort to the crunchiness of a half-dozen rules on weapon speed and what not.

Just be sure to spell out in plain English the strengths and weakness of each weapon. That way you have the 'realism' of a rules-heavy game, without the actual rules.

Also, keep the variable starting points rule. I for one, love being able to play an experience character instead of a rank newbie -- though of course, I thoink that's not a problem anyway with this system, since you can start with a trait of 05. You might want to have a prioritized list of point values (say, 5/4/4/2/2 or whatever) rather than saying, "You start with X number of points." YMMV.

[Brian Leybourne]

Michael,

Nice to see someone else commenting in this thread, it's been Jeff and I for a while now :-)

Check out the Actual Play thread on the Spin system (a link is a couple of messages above, by me) where we also discuss some rules changes.

Brian.

[Jeph]

Okay, major highlights of the new version:
• The system is now d10 based. Traits default to 2, and max out at seven. A roll of 0 (or 10 on some dice) counts as two successes.
• The damage track has shifted to a 10-points cale, instead of 6-point. Pnealties from damage and heavy armor now come in the form of reduced Traits, not extra Spin costs.
• Starting characters have 12 points with which to purchase Traits, and do not have to purchase the assumed points. Ex, a Trait at three costs one point, a Trait at four costs two points, etc.
• A section on Supernatural Powers has been added, covering magic, psionics, and superpowers.
• A clause on rewarding Bonus Dice for being cool has been added.

Spin System Version 1.3

One: Characters

   The first step of character creation is to write a short (about fifty words) paragraph describing your character. This is not a term paper, nor is it a single sentence. The paragraph should describe what your character is good at, their passions and drives, family, friends, background, and anything else.

   After you have written this paragraph, pick two to five Traits from the information that you gave. Traits can be almost anything, from Strong to Swordsmen to Loves Jolene. Traits should be narrow and well defined. For instance, Weapons is too broad, as is Passionate. What type of weapons does your character use? Are they an Archer? How are they passionate? Do they love deeply, or have strong fits of anger?

   Not all of your character's Traits have to be positive qualities. In fact, none of them do. For instance, you may choose Cowardice to be one of their Traits. This would aid your character in fleeing from danger, and getting the other guy to go see if the dragon's really 'just sleeping'.

   A Trait that has had no points assigned to it has a rating of two. You have twelve points with which to enhance your chosen Traits, although no Trait may have a value greater than seven. If you wish, you may set aside up to five Trait points that go into your Spin Modifier, instead of a normal Trait.

   Now that you know your Traits, you can figure your Spin Modifier. Your Spin Modifier is equal to two, plus any points that you set aside for this purpose. At the beginning of a session, your Spin Pool is equal to double your Spin Modifier, plus one.

   Example: Alex is creating a new character, Biran. He writes: 'Biran's father was murdered in cold blood by a prince, and Biran has dedicated his life to tracking the man down. He has become a master of the blade in order to dispatch the man, and uses his natural charm and cunning to advance his goal.' From this, Alex distills the traits Swordsman at six, Seeking Revenge for Father at five, and Manipulative at three. He has spent nine of his Trait points, so Biran's Spin Modifier is three, and his Spin Pool is seven.

Two: System

   Whenever a character attempts to do something difficult, they will make a Roll. When a character makes a Roll, they roll a ten-sided die. They may spend Spin to roll up to four extra dice. Spent spin is immediately subtracted from a character's Spin pool.

   Before they roll, a character may pick a relevant Trait. This may be any Trait that they possess, as long as they can logically relate it to the task at hand. If they can't find a relevant Trait, their Trait value is treated as one.
   When a character makes a Roll, the GM must set a Difficulty for the Roll. This Difficulty should be one for a moderately hard task, two for difficult tasks, three for very difficult tasks, and four for a task that borders on the impossible.

   If the task is being actively resisted by another character, the GM does not set a Difficulty. Instead, both players roll, and the one that gets the most Successes wins. If both characters roll the same number of Successes, the one with the higher relevant Trait value wins. If both characters have the same Trait value, then the roll is a tie. When a character makes an opposed roll, and has multiple relevant Traits, only the highest of these Traits applies. However, in the case of a tie, combine all relevant Traits to determine the victor.

If the player describes their character's action particularly well, the GM may choose to reward them with one or two Bonus Dice. For each Bonus Die awarded, the player may add one die of a different color to their die pool. These Bonus Dice can count as successes, but they can never replenish a character's Spin Pool. Note that Bonus Dice do not count against a roll's 5-die maximum.

   Every die that comes up equal to or under the character's relevant Trait value is treated as a Success. Each die that comes up with a zero counts as two successes. If the player rolls at least as many Successes as the task's Difficulty, the y are successful.

   Every time a character rolls one or more Successes, their Spin rating increases by the number of Successes rolled.

   Example: The thief quietly snuck up to Biron, eyes fixed upon the man's bulging money pouch. A quick slash, and then he'd disappear across the moonlit rooftops and into the night.

   The Thief has a Pick Pocket Trait of six, and a Spin Pool of five. He spends three of his Spin Pool, rolling six, four, eight, seven: two successes, and a current Spin Pool of four. The GM asks Alex to make a roll for Biron involving perception. Biron has no relevant Trait, but Alex doesn't want to be duped, so spends two points of Spin. He rolls zero, four, five: two successes and a Spin Pool remaining at seven. Because the thief has a higher Trait, he succeeds at the task, but the GM rules that Biron is at least aware of the rogue.

   The thief's hand darted in, the dagger twirled deftly, and the pouch fell into his hand. Sensing a slight tug, Biron spun around, but too late: a shadowy figure leapt up onto a barrel, then up a fence, and was now bounding away over the city's shingled peaks. Biron whipped out his sword, roared, and gave chase.

   Biron again has no relative Trait, but wants to get his money back, because he earned it, damn it! He spends four points of Spin, rolling one, two, four, five, five: two Successes, and a current Spin Pool of five. The thief is again ready for this sort of thing, with a Quick Getaway Trait of four. He spends three points of Spin, rolling three, zero, five, nine: three Successes, a current Spin Pool of four, and a victory.

   The thief nimbly leapt over a rooftop, and was gone. Biron stopped, breathing hard, and began casting about in the shadows. There! More distant, but still there. The chase goes on . . .

Three: Combat

   When characters are engaged in combat, time is not broken down into rounds, as it is in many other Role Playing Games. Instead, characters simply declare an action, state what Trait they are using and give a justification if necessary, and assign a number of Spin to the roll. After they have done this, but before they have rolled any dice, all other characters have a chance to react. They, too, will follow the above process. Then, players either roll appropriate dice, or one or more of them Bolsters their roll.

   When a player decides to Bolster one of their characters' rolls, they must immediately pay 1 point of Spin. After they have done this, they may add extra dice to the roll on a one-for-one basis, as long as the total number or dice rolled does not exceed five. Bolstering can represent extra effort, a feint, a shift of the wind, or anything else. Each player may only Bolster once per roll, but you may Bolster in reaction to the Bolstering of another. After all Bolstering is done, the roll is made.

   Characters with higher traits relating to speed and agility, as well as those that use more light, maneuverable weapons, should be allowed to declare their action more often than slower characters.

   Striking another character in combat normally has a Difficulty of one. However, if the target declares that they are Dodging your attack (they must declare that they are dodging before your attack is rolled), the attack is instead an Opposed Roll.

   When a character is actually hit in combat, the attacker figure's the attack's Damage Rating, which is equal to the number of successes rolled in the attack, minus the number of successes that the defender rolled, plus the Damage Modifier of the weapon used. Typical Damage Modifiers are zero for an unarmed attack or knife, one for a short sword, two for a rapier or pistol, and three for a large axe or rifle.

   The defender may now Soak Damage. If they do, they make a relevant roll. Subtract the number of Successes rolled from the attack's Damage Rating. The defender takes this many Wounds. Characters that don't wear armor can only soak damage that comes from impacts, such as a punch or fall. If a character wears very heavy armor, they automatically soak one or two extra points of damage from all attacks, but are treated as if their Traits relating to agility and full-body movement were one or two points lower than they actually are, respectively.

   If a character has at least four Wounds, their Traits relating to physical actions are treated as if they were one point lower than they actually are. When a character has ammassed seven Wounds, their physical Traits are now penalized two points. A character that has sustained nine Wounds is unconcious. If a character takes any more Wounds, they may die. Note that penalties due to Wounds stack with any penalties due to heavy armor.

   Example: As he ran, the thief flipped his knife, so that he held the blade between his two fingers. He wanted to end this chase, end it now: that man looked dangerous. He cocked the blade back, let fly.

   The thief has a Knife Fighting Trait at five, and spends his entire remaining Spin Pool (four points). Alex says that Biron attempts to deftly knock the dagger out of the air with his saber, using his Swordsman skill at six, and also spending four points of his Spin Pool. The thief rolls one, two, two, six, six: three successes, and a current Spin of three. Alex rolls zero, three, six, seven, seven: four successes, a current Spin of five, and a successful maneuver.

   Biron twirls his sword, flicking it like a snake, and the dagger ceases it's flight, clattering to the roof, then sliding off to the street below. The thief pulls another knife as Biron leaps over the rooftops to close and attack.

   The GM rules that this is actually two actions for Biron: one to close, one to attack. Alex spends four points of Spin to catch the thief, using the default Trait of two. The thief, knowing that he'll be caught eventually, spends no Spin points, and uses his Quick Getaway of four. Biron rolls one, one, five, five, six: two successes, and a Spin Pool of three. The thief rolls an eight: no successes, and his Spin remains at four. Biron closes.

   Next comes the attack. Biron's Swordsman Trait at six applies, and Alex elects to spend his entire Spin Pool of three. The thief attempts to catch the blade with the handgaurd of his knife, using his Knife Fighting at five, and also spending three Spin. Alex rolls  one, two, five, five, six: four successes, and a Spin now at four. The thief rolls three, three, five, nine: two Successes, and a curent Spin of three. Biron's attack hits.  It deals four points of damage: four for Biron's successes, plus two for his weapon (a rapier), minus two for the thief's successes. Since he does not wear armor, the theif cannot choose to Soak.

   Biron rushes across the rooftop, leaping over a chimney and using his momentum to aid a quick strike at the thief's shoulder. The saber slashes into flesh, and the rogue cries out in pain. Knowing that he's faced with an opponent of superior skill and drive, he drops the money pouch and flees.

Four: Supernatural Powers

Some players may wish to play characters that can cast magic spells, use psychic powers, or fly around like Superman. In most cases, these mystical abilities will be treated just like normal Traits. However, if a character wishes to possess a less defined supernatural power, they may have access to a broader Trait, at a price.

Before you assign special supernatural Traits to your character, ask yourself this question: How broad is this Trait, really? If if could be seen as a single spell or power, like "Cast a spell that makes me flyk," or "Throw a burning energy blast," treat it as if it were a normal Trait. However, if it could be seen as an array of abilities or a school of magic, such as "Mastery of Fire magic" or "Super Spider Powers," it will be treated as a Supernatural Trait.

Supernatural Traits work just like normal Traits, but are more dangerous to use. Whenever a character using a Supernatural Trait makes a roll, and they roll more failures than successes, they take damage equal to the difference between the number of successes and failures rolled. This damage can not be soaked, even by characters who wear armor.

Note that Bonus Dice are not factored in when determining weather or not a character takes damage, and how much damage they take, from using Supernatural Traits.

Example: The room was dark. Biron could see nothing; nor had he seen anything for days. The shakles bit fiercely into his wrists and ankles, but try as he might, he could not move.

A low rumbling sound set up, followed by a piercing, rusty creak. A vertical slash of light blossomed, burning Biron's eyes. The doorway widened, and Mythros stepped into the cell. "Well, Biron," the greasy man said, in a mockingly conversive tone, "It seems that your usefulness is past. We've already got the girl, I might as well kill you now. I'm a little rusty, so this may take quite a while." Mythros gestured to two burly men behind him, who lifted Biron bodily, and threw him onto the floor, and left.

"Well, I shall set about capturing your soul to live as my puppet in eternal damnation, then. Hmm, how did that spell start . . ?" Mythros flicked his hands and muttered a few words, and a globe of dancing light appeared in front of him. In the dim illumination, he reached inside his robes, drawing forth various viles and arcane objects. Drawing a circle around Biron's prostate form with some greenish, foul smelling salt, and setting a large emerald on the fallen warrior's chest, the wizard began to chant.

Mythros has the Supernatural Trait of Demonic Necromancer at six, and the task of capturing a man's soul is no easy task, with a Difficulty of three. Not wanting to mess up, Mythros spends four of his five Spin dice. He rolls three, seven, eight, eight, nine: one success, and four failures! The task fails, and Mythros takes three points of damage.

The circle around Biron bursts into greenish, unholy flame, and the gem on his chest begins to burn with a hellish fire. Tendrils of smoke rise from the man's vest. Mythros is shouting now, the incantation rushing through his body like a secnond blood . . . too much! The wizard's eyes bulge as the words keep coming out of his mouth, against his will, the circle of flame burning brighter and brighter, much to intense . . .

Five: Rejuvenating

   Characters regain some of their former glory when they take a bit of time for rest and recreation. While taking a breather, characters slowly recover their health and regain Spin.

   Each day that a character rests, they may make a Roll to reduce their Wound Total. The Difficulty of this roll is equal to the number of Wounds that a character has, minus divided by two (maximum five). If they succeed, they recover one Wound.

   In addition, characters at rest regain some Spin when they're not climbing mile high cliffs, combating the forces of evil, or doing other strenuous work. Between scenes, each player will roll a number of dice equal to ten minus their character's current Spin Pool, with a minimum of no dice. Each die that rolls equal to or under the character's Spin Modifier lets them regain one point of Spin. A roll of zero always lets them regain two points of Spin, instead.

   Example: After the bout with the purse snatcher, the scene ends. Biron picks up his money, and shudders in the cold night air. It is refreshing, and he can feel his vitality flowing back.

   Biron currently has a Spin Pool of four, and a Spin Modifier of three. Therefore, he rolls six dice. He rolls two, two, three, four, five, six, eight; regaining three points of Spin and bringing his pool back up to seven.

Six: Advancement

   Through the course of the game, characters may grow and change. There are two ways that a character's Traits can shift: Redistribution and Experience.

   Redistribution is when a character decreases one trait in order to increase or add another. This should only be done with the Game Master's permission, and only when it makes sense. A character can not decrease a Trait to below two, and they may not increase a Trait to above seven.

   When a character or group of characters have accomplished a long term goal, the Game Master may award them Experience. When the GM does this, each player may increase one of their character's Traits by one point (but not to eight or above), or add a new Trait at three.

   In either case, characters may use a few points to increase their Spin Modifier instead, just as if it were a Trait. However, like normal Traits, a character's Spin Modifier may never increase beyond seven.

   Example: At long last, Biron has found his father's murderer, and put an end to him. The Game Master awards Alex a point of Experience to spend. He puts it into Swordsmanship, increasing that Trait to seven.

In addition, with his target of revenge out of the way, he has three points from his Seeking Revenge for Father Trait to redistribute. He chooses to switch the trait to Long-lasting Hate of Noir, the royal family to which the prince belonged.

[Mark Johnson]

Characters with higher traits relating to speed and agility, as well as those that use more light, maneuverable weapons, should be allowed to declare their action more often than slower characters

Any guidelines on how to implement this systematically?

[Brian Leybourne]

Good stuff, just a couple of points (some are pure pedantry, sorry about that).

Spin System Version 1.3

With such a fundamental chance from D6's to D10's, this should probably be V2. A big change like that is worth more than a point version upgrade (sorry, that's the programmer in me talking *grin*).

Example: Alex is creating a new character, Biran. He writes: 'Biran's father was murdered in cold blood by a prince, and Biran has dedicated his life to tracking the man down. He has become a master of the blade in order to dispatch the man, and uses his natural charm and cunning to advance his goal.' From this, Alex distills the traits Swordsman at six, Seeking Revenge for Father at five, and Manipulative at three. He has spent nine of his Trait points, so Biran's Spin Modifier is three, and his Spin Pool is seven.

Given that he's only spent 9 of his 12, his spin mod is 2+3=5, spin pool is therefore 11.

Before they roll, a character may pick a relevant Trait. This may be any Trait that they possess, as long as they can logically relate it to the task at hand. If they can't find a relevant Trait, their Trait value is treated as one.

You mean two.

If a character has at least four Wounds, their Traits relating to physical actions are treated as if they were one point lower than they actually are. When a character has ammassed seven Wounds, their physical Traits are now penalized two points. A character that has sustained nine Wounds is unconcious. If a character takes any more Wounds, they may die. Note that penalties due to Wounds stack with any penalties due to heavy armor.

Just a clarification, have you changed this scale from what we discussed in the actual play thread? There it was 1-3: no penalty, 4-6: -1, 7-9: -2, 10: unconscious, 11+: may die. Also, you say that with 10 or more (11 or more?) wounds they may die but you forgot to put in the bit about making a roll against a difficulty of the number of wounds - 10.

Some players may wish to play characters that can cast magic spells, use psychic powers, or fly around like Superman. In most cases, these mystical abilities will be treated just like normal Traits. However, if a character wishes to possess a less defined supernatural power, they may have access to a broader Trait, at a price.

As I found in play, this works quite well. I also like the wounds-for-more-failures-than-successes etc. However, this still doesn't quite solve the problem of broad traits because if I take a broad trait like "Demonic Necromancer" to the maximum of 7, I am very seldom going to get more failures than successes (each die has a 10% chance to give 2 successes, 70% chance to give 1 success and only 20% chance to give 1 failure) so there's almost no penalty to having the very broad supernatural trait.

How about this: For broad supernatural traits, every failure die rolled (regardless of number of successes) gives 1 fatigue point. These are as dibilitating as wounds and stack with wounds but refresh a lot quicker, about 5-10 minutes per point. If the spell is a failure, those points are wounds instead of fatigue.

So, as example:

Mythros has the Supernatural Trait of Demonic Necromancer at six, and the task of capturing a man's soul is no easy task, with a Difficulty of three. Not wanting to mess up, Mythros spends four of his five Spin dice. He rolls three, seven, eight, eight, nine: one success, and four failures! The task fails, and Mythros takes four wounds. If he had instead rolled two, three, three, four, nine he would have had 3 successes, 2 points of fatigue, and poor Biron would have a few centuries of torture to look forward to...

What do you think? I have a playtest session today, so I may try it both ways.

Five: Rejuvenating

Just to clarify.. you dropped the idea of fully refreshing spin each scene? I'll try it both ways today and see what works.

When a character or group of characters have accomplished a long term goal, the Game Master may award them Experience. When the GM does this, each player may increase one of their character's Traits by one point (but not to eight or above), or add a new Trait at three.

I still favor giving out points more often, but increasing the cost of raising traits higher, as we discussed a while back. Maybe raising a trait costs the current trait level in experience, so to buy a trait at 3 costs 2 (because since you don't already have the trait, it's default is 2) and then to increase it from 3 to 4 costs 3, and so on.

The main advantage of this is that it causes players to tend to broaden themselves, instead of focusing on one or two traits. If raising a trait from 6-7 is the same cost as raising another one from 3-4 I'm more likely to raise the one at 6.

Works just as well, but means that you have to give out more points/more often. What do you think?

Good stuff, I really like this system. In our last playtest we found that it was very narritivist-promoting. I'll get back to you with another actual play report after todays test.

[Jeph]

V2.0 it is, then. :D

Minor mistakes: My bad! Thanks for pointing them out.

Wounds: I was thinking along the lines of a strict 10-point track when I wrote it down, but I guess that the 11+ track would work better.

Rejuvenating: Correct.

Experience: Fundamentally, I don't really see the difference between the two ways.  They both result in the same thing . . . increasing and new Traits. With your proposed exp system, heigher traits would go up more slowly then lower traits, but you'd need to keep track of more points. I'll probably throw it in as an option, since it can't hurt. :-)

Looking forward to the second report! Let's see if I can still edit the v2 post . . .

EDIT: nope, guess I can't. Ah well, the tweaks'll be in v2.1.

[Brian Leybourne]

You didn't say anything about sorcery, which was the biggest change I proposed...

Brian.

[Jeph]

Ah yes, sorcery and other magic stuff . . .

A good idea. The thing that makes it work is the rapidity with which Fatigue fades. Perhaps, to still make it slightly dangerous, the original rule could also be kept--you take Fatigue equal to the number of Failures rolled, and if your Failures outweight your successes, a portion of that Fatigue is instead damage.

For convenience, I'd have Fatigue fade at the end of a scene. It's easier than keeping track of minutes until individual points dissipate.

I suppose that accumulating huge amounts of Fatigue for using Supernatural Traits for many innaucus things is actually a good thing, keeping the magic level below the DnD fireball-chucking mishmash.