Statistics for Guns

[Mordacc]

Im thinking about a mordern campaign for TRoS and im wondering if these statistics for a few guns are realistic/workable.

Pistols

.45
4 rounds prep time.
Refresh begins once one shot is fired.
2 MP dice to reduce prep time by one second at Reflex/TN of 9
ATN: 7
Effective Strength: 10
DR: ST + 4p (14)
Range: +1 ATN per 20 yards
2 MP dice to fire twice on one round.
.45 pistols are common weapons used by those who can afford them.  They are very powerful and pack a devastating punch, however with its significant kick, it is difficult to aim.  

Walther PPK
3 rounds prep time.
Refresh begins once one shot is fired.
2 MP dice to reduce prep time by one second at Reflex/TN of 8
ATN: 5
Effective Strength: 8
DR: ST + 4p (12)
Range: +1 ATN per 40 yards.
1 MP dice to fire twice in a round.
The Walther PPK is a very common weapon used by most normal people.  It is durable, effective, and does not clog as easily as other high powered weapons.  It also has the advantage of being quite a bit smaller than larger pistols like the .45.


Rifles

M-16
4 rounds prep time
Refresh beings once 3 shots are fired.  You may treat three shots as only one for purposes of your MP if the weapon is on auto-fire (which is illegal).
2 MP dice to reduce prep time by 1 second at Reflex/TN of 9
ATN: 6
Effective Strength: 9
DR: ST + 6p (15)
Range: +1 ATN per 50 yards.
The M-16 rifle is the standard weapon of the US military.  It is a powerful weapon capable of punching through armor and flak vests, and is very accurate.  It lacks the durability of the AK-47 and the power of the M-60

M-60
8 rounds prep time
Refresh begins once 3 shots are fired.  Same rules apply for auto-fire as the M-16.
2 MP dice to reduce prep time by 1 second.  Prep time may be reduced by an additional second if assisted by another.
ATN: 6
Effective Strength: 12
DR: ST + 7p (19)
Range: +1 ATN per 60 yards.
The M-60 rifle is used as a support rifle in the US military.  It is often used as a trench and bunker gun and is especially effective at blowing apart lightly armored vehicles and mowing down masses of enemy troops.

P4-16 "Dante" Sniper Rifle
2 rounds prep time
Refresh beings once bullet is loaded (lever action)
ATN: 4
Effective Strength: 7
DR: ST + 10p (17)
Range: +1 ATN per 150 yards.
The P4-16 "Dante" is the famous hallmark weapon of the Huxley Hotel mercenary group.  The weapon is capable of piercing through the armor of medium strength vehicles and blowing the head off any person hit.


Heavy Weapons

DZ7 Rocket Launcher
10 rounds prep time.
Refresh begins once rocket is loaded.
ATN: 10
Effective Strength: 20
DR: ST + 10x (explosion) in 13 ft. radius.
Range: +1 ATN per 30 yards.
The DZ7 is a powerful weapon developed by the Russian military.  It went on mass sale after the cold war ended and is now in the hands of many mercenary companies and mobs throughout the world.



Any reccomendations on new skill packets, alterations to the priority system, or any other comments are welcome.  Also tell me anything you would change about the weapons, if anything.

[Brian Leybourne]

I think your prep times are a little excessive - I can see the point from a balance point of view, but you have them taking as long or longer to prep than a bow!

For most modern firearms, cocking the weapon might have a prep time of 1-3 seconds (I play rounds as always 2 seconds each, instead of varying between 1 and 2 but YMMV) but the next X shots (depending on clip size) should have a 0 or at most 1 second prep time, very few weapons there days are not at least semi-automatic (firing as quickly as you can pull the trigger).

At the other end of the spectrum, I think your damage ratings are too high. Is there really any point in having a damage rating of 14 or 12? Against even someone with a HIGH toughness, this is still a level 5 wound (and that's not even taking attack successes into consideration). Body armor isn't that common these days, either. There should be at least SOME chance to get flesh wounds, merely nicking the person, shots that go clean through surface fat without striking anyhting that distorts them, and so on. I would drop the damage to be around the same level as a longbow or thereabouts.

Just my 2c.

Brian.

[Mordacc]

Those prep times arent between bullets, they are the time it takes to load a new clip.  I see your point about damage, so i think i will lower it to about the longbow or maybe one or two above.  Some weapons, like a bazooka, however, would still need high damage ratings.  After all, they will need that damage in order to kill tanks (whos stats i am currently working on)

[Mokkurkalfe]

I did some rules for modern firearms to use in an XCOM game. However they are in an excel spreadsheet and I don't have Excel anymore.
Anyway, the problem is that you'll want to have flesh wounds and  nickings and stuff, while still letting a bullet to the head kill anyone.
In tRoS, your bow can pierce armour the better you aim. This makes sense in the beginning (better shot), but it gets kinda weird after a while. This means that you can't really hurt tough guys unless you aim a lot, even at close range.
Perhaps missile combat isn't random enough. Or perhaps the MoS should decide how much of the weapons DR is applied. Or something. As it is now, I think it is an annoying flaw.

[Shadeling]

Mokkurkalfe email me those gun stats, I have Excel. Email:shadeling32@yahoo.com

[Mordacc]

yea email me those gun stats if you would.  it would be greatly appreciated.  im at sublime2232@hotmail.com

[Mokkurkalfe]

Well, the spreadsheet is in swedish. Would this present any problems?

Edit: Hold on. I managed to get Excel back. I'll translate and send it to anyone who wants it.

[Shadeling]

Well, the spreadsheet is in swedish. Would this present any problems?

Yeah, guess it would-I don't know the swedish language. Oh well. Thanks.

[prophet118]

wish i new yards to meters conversions.. anyway

standard 45 is going to have an effective range of about 50 meters
the PPK walther has an effective range of 40 meters
the m16 and the m16a1 have an effective range of 400 meters
the m60 (7.62MM) has an effective range of 1000 meter
i didnt find the p4-16, but i suppose a 7.62 MM RAI long range sniper rifle will do, effective range 1300 meters.




are you willing to accept these ranges in your game?...1300 meters.....thats about 4,950 feet

[Ace]

Also please note that someone with a decent proficiency in modern firearms can fire the weapon and expect to hit a target multiple times in a second

A person armed with an M16A2 might get off 3 bursts of 3 rounds in an exchange!

The tactics used for modern arms are so very different than the ones used for Swords and Bows it might be hard to convert

Blackpowder OTOH is very slow, 1 shot (with decent CP refresh) every 20 seconds or so. This can be coped with by the existing system reasonbly well

[prophet118]

very true, that tends to be a problem in alot of modern style games, its always over in a hail of bullets, because the players know that nothing can withstand a full burst from a semi or fully automatic weapon...30-40 bullets, fights over, lets go get a pizza.....