Glamour as a physical force

[Fallen_Icarus]

On page 107, under the heading of Glamour lvl 2, it mentions that the illusion can be made solid but lacking real sound or tactile componants.  In one of my adventures I intoduced a part of a wall that was Glamoured over to this extent.  I did not allow them to pass without dispelling the magic first.

Later, a magic using PC decided to use that instance as a precident for casting his own Glamour 2 spells in order to affect real objects (i.e. smashing open doors with a huge floating hand - he's a D&D player - , and smacking people down.  I allowed him to do this, grudgingly.

Afterwards I reviewed that section of the book and saw that the description for Glamour itself mentions only aftecting the minds of others.  So my question is, how would a person deal with a solid illusion that they know is not real?  My initial thought on this would be that the target must make a WP/# of casting successes to overcome the feeling that they cant pass through it.  Also this could come into effect in combat.  If the target fails its check treat the remaining amount of die as wound levels but only for figuring shock.

Id love some thoughts on how others would deal with this situation.

Thanks,
Eric

[Bob Richter]

I think you're dead-on with the WP check, make the TN equal to CTN+casting successes, and there you go.

Of course, your characters have to discover it's not real first, too...:)

[Shadeling]

Some of the example Glamour spells actually call for PER tests to see through them. IMHO it should be PER not WP, as you are 'seeing' through it. If Conquer is involved, then WP comes into play.

[Fallen_Icarus]

So lets say that a Gifted, useing Glamour 2, creates a giant ramming thingy and "hurls" it at some bloke.  The bloke fails his PER check and it "hits" him.  How do you measure his reation?  One could just use the formula that I mentioned before regarding # of successes casting as "wound" levels to determine Shock, but PER doesn't really apply to psycosomatic reactions.

Eric

[Brian Leybourne]

If you read the "Realism" section, you'll see that only at Realism 3 does something actually look sincere. Additionally, the "no tactile component" of Glamour 2 leads me to believe that it merely looks solid, but wouldn't be solid to touch (otherwise there would be tactile feedback, which Glamour 2 doesn't have).

So, I think we're actually discussing a Glamour 3 effect here. If you hit someone with a Glamour three illusion, I would probably work out damage as if the illusion were real, but only apply the Shock result. The result is that the victim loses dice immediately because they failed to "see through" the illusion (the PER check you mention), and believe the attack to be real, but eventually they'll work out that they're only getting shock from the thing, and not actually real pain or damage, at which point I would let them roll the Per again.

All IMO of course.

Brian.

[Shadeling]

So lets say that a Gifted, useing Glamour 2, creates a giant ramming thingy and "hurls" it at some bloke.  The bloke fails his PER check and it "hits" him.  How do you measure his reation?  One could just use the formula that I mentioned before regarding # of successes casting as "wound" levels to determine Shock, but PER doesn't really apply to psycosomatic reactions.

Eric

Read some of the sample Glamour spells. For example the Duplicate spell creates a Glamour version of the sorcerer. It is defeated by a PER test. In other words-not seen, touched, etc. Glamour is a deception of a character's senses, not his mind. If you want someone to feel pain from a Glamour spell, than you would need to apply the Conquer Vagary as well-that is the vagary that messes with your mind. Remember also, Vagaries cannot create something from nothing. Allowing your player to create a Ram from Glamour, that can actually do real harm is actually going against the premise of Glamour.

[Fallen_Icarus]

However I'm not talking about doing actuall harm.  Shock, while in its purest form, is used to factor the body's reation to damage, is really just a number to calculate loss of CP and knockdown.  I think that a person who belives he is being hit with a ram will respond in kind, though taking no physical harm.

[Shadeling]

However I'm not talking about doing actuall harm.  Shock, while in its purest form, is used to factor the body's reation to damage, is really just a number to calculate loss of CP and knockdown.  I think that a person who belives he is being hit with a ram will respond in kind, though taking no physical harm.

I really think you need Conquer to make this happen, as you are trying to decieve the mind rather than the senses.