Dagger Damage?

[Drew Stevens]

First, I'm sold.  *copy ordered*

Second, I'm confused.

So, I've been reading the QuickStart rules, and I noticed that some fairly blunt, usally non-lethal weapons (Quarterstaff, Kick) seemed to be doing a good bit more damage than some fairly sharp, flesh rendy type weapons (Dagger, Predator claws).  This seems... off.

Especially in the case of a Kick.  I mean, while it is certainly /possible/ to kick someone to death via boot to the head, it's /far/ easier to stick a knife in their eye.  Or, put another way, a barroom brawl becomes less deadly in the QuickStart rules when someone pulls out a knife.

Did I miss some notes on subdual/non-lethal damage, and using non-lethal attacks in a lethal fashion?  Or, if not, do such rules exist?  After all, sometimes you'll want to just knock a damnfool opponent unconcious, rather than kill him.

[Mokkurkalfe]

I dunno 'bout the QS rules, but in the full version, a dagger thrust is more dangerous than the kick and the punch alike.
The quarterstaff OTOH, is a very good weapon, which I think is one of the coolest things in tRoS.

[Drew Stevens]

Oh yeah.  I don't deny the Powah (tm) (c) (r) of the Staff for a second. :)

It was more the disjunct between a dagger's damage and a kick's damage.  But, again, there might be Stuff I Don't Get Yet, owing to lack of complete rules.

*whimper*

Jake, you do ship with two day, right?  Cause I need my Riddle fix... ;)

[Jim DelRosso]

Damage ratings differ between the QS and the full rules.  Check the appendices which are posted on the support page of the website for the actual damage ratings of weapons (though the web page might have the ratings from the 1st printing-- not sure).

In any case, daggers used for thrusting are dangerous, moreso than kicks.

[Ashren Va'Hale]

yeah, dagger thrust is deadly, kick, well you can snap a neck, break a knee or crush gonads with it so I wouldn't rule it out. what makes kicks not so deadly is the difficulty in landing them (ATN) and the usually poor combat pools for grappling and brawling. basically kicks tend to be blocked or only land around the shins and knees. If you really think a kick to the knees is not a very bad thing to have hapen to you its an easy experiment to arrange if you have any little brothers or sisters.

[Jake Norwood]

It also costs a CP to kick, but nothing to thrust.

Jake

[Stephen]

So, I've been reading the QuickStart rules, and I noticed that some fairly blunt, usally non-lethal weapons (Quarterstaff, Kick) seemed to be doing a good bit more damage than some fairly sharp, flesh rendy type weapons (Dagger, Predator claws).  This seems... off.

Especially in the case of a Kick.  I mean, while it is certainly /possible/ to kick someone to death via boot to the head, it's /far/ easier to stick a knife in their eye.  Or, put another way, a barroom brawl becomes less deadly in the QuickStart rules when someone pulls out a knife.

What you're seeing is the effect of a very complex and realistic damage system, which normally differentiates between cutting, piercing and bashing damage as well as breaking down the body impact zones MUCH more specifically, distilled down to a single table for the QS.

The basic DRs (STR+X) for each weapon were taken from the basic weapons tables in the corebook, but the specific ways in which a knife is actually a much nastier weapon than a blunt piece of wood got lost in the compression of the damage tables, most especially in the fact that a particular wound to a particular area does the same BL regardless of what type of weapon inflicts it.  For the QS rules, which are designed primarily to get people hooked on the main system, this was an acceptable compromise.

For a stopgap measure if you want to keep using the QS rules, say in starter games for new players, simply put in a house rule that says blunt weapons cause no BL for any wound that isn't Level 3 or higher (you really have to smash something serious and hard to start the blood spurting with a blunt weapon).  This allows knives to cause less immediate shock and pain, but be more dangerous through blood loss than the heavier quarterstaff.