Stop Short

[Valamir]

Ok, In my first few times threw Stop Short was one of those moves that I skipped because it made my head hurt trying to figure it out.  Now that I've gotten more adept at combat thanks to Brian's simulator (I play it instead of solitaire during down times) I've started to experiment with some of the more "odd ball" maneuvers like Duck and Weave and Stop Short and Expulsion.

I'm doing this from memory so I might get it a little wrong, but basically I'm rolling my WP vs enemy Perception and my opponent is rolling reflex vs 7+.  So if I have a WP higher then my opponent's reflex, or the opponent's perception is less than 7, Odds are that I'm going to win.  If I spend 2 CP to bump the target number to 9, odds are that I'm going to win by alot.

I'm not seeing much of a downside here.  In running this through the combat sim for a cost of 2CPs I was regularly burning 3-4 of my opponents CPs, which means even with the +1 cost increase I can do this a couple times in a row.  

Consider, Stop Short on 2 exchange of the round.  I spend however many CPs I have left (its the second exchange) say 4.  Against TN 11 my opponent is likely to fail entirely losing say 3 CP.  Now the book doesn't specify but the simulator takes this 3CP loss from my opponent's NEXT exchange in the new round, not off of any dice he has left this round (which makes sense as otherwise Stopping Short on the 2nd exchange is completely useless.

Now the first round of the second exchange I'm at full dice and my opponent is down 3.  If I liked the matchup on the stats to do a Stop Short, I stop short again burning maybe 1 CP.  Say my opponent loses 2CPs this time, I've just successfully bled 5CP out of their pool at a cost of only 1 of mine.  I go into the second exchange with pretty much my entire dice pool laying down a hard core smack down, cut to the arm (for the bonus die), and its hurting time.

This only works for characters who have a high WP, but its been pretty effective.

One thing I haven't been able to figure out is if the 1CP activation penelty keeps increasing for the the whole fight, or if it resets following a break.

[Spartan]

One thing I haven't been able to figure out is if the 1CP activation penelty keeps increasing for the the whole fight, or if it resets following a break.

I'd say that it does keep increasing.  I might even be tempted to treat it sort of like a feint and say that it increases over any number of duels with the same opponent... the old dog has learned your new tricks, as it were.

-Mark

[Fallen_Icarus]

One thing I haven't been able to figure out is if the 1CP activation penelty keeps increasing for the the whole fight, or if it resets following a break.

I'd say that it does keep increasing.  I might even be tempted to treat it sort of like a feint and say that it increases over any number of duels with the same opponent... the old dog has learned your new tricks, as it were.

-Mark

I agree.  Stop Short and Feint are both an attempt to throw your opponant for a loop without doing damage.  The rules for Feint apply.  There is also precident in the optional rule dealing with multiple strikes to the same area.

[Jake Norwood]

I'd say so, too.

Jake

[Callan S.]

The one thing I wonder about feint the foe remember it after a break is...how often do both parties live after a fight? I'd imagine even with main villains, in this system they should only be fighting once all their other back up plans are foiled. Fights just seem to spell the end, not 'Here, I'll take some of your hitpoints then drink this potion of invisibility and run away'. So who really needs to note this down! :)

[Jake Norwood]

Noon-

That's a good point, but not all bouts are to the death. You could maim an opponent, wound him not-fatally and spare him (or be spared), or fight with "saftey" weapons that do less damage. That sort of thing.

Jake

[John Resotko]

Agreed.  I'm recalling a particularly good example in fantasy literature, one of Fritz Leiber's "Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser" stories.  In it, our heroes had just daringly "liberated" some item for an employer as the story begins.  The rest of the tale is our two great, strong heroes running like mad away from a force that outnumbers them at least three to one.  There are a lot of hit-n-run skirmishes, as small groups of the pursuers overtake and try to engage the heroes. The heroes are only interested in getting OUT of combat as quickly as possible so they can keep running toward safety.  Sometimes, all you want to do is stay alive.

Hey, that could make an interesting story seed, or interlude in a larger campaign..... and the kind of stuff that rarely happens in d20 style systems.  

John (who remembers his old fencing instructor refering to this as a stop thurst feint, but what the heck.)

[Sneaky Git]

Noon-

That's a good point, but not all bouts are to the death. You could maim an opponent, wound him not-fatally and spare him (or be spared), or fight with "saftey" weapons that do less damage. That sort of thing.

Jake

Here's a question Jake.  Could the villian, having dispatched his henchmen to do his dirty work (i.e. kill/maim/taunt/etc. the PC's), simply watch the bout from afar and learn some of the Old Dog's tricks (feint, stop short, etc.)?  Or is it that you really need to be involved in the engagement to learn?

Chris

[Damascus]

Don't forget, if your victim is a Landed or Unlanded Noble, maybe even a high freeman, someone out there is either obliged, in the case of nobles, or willing, for the freeman, to pay a ransom to get him back alive.  All you have to do is either
a) lug him around and wait for the ransom, hoping he doesn't get uppity and find a carelessly unattended weapon, or b) stick him in an ally's / friend's/ acquaintance's dungeon and wait for the gold.  Naturally, this might not always be possible, but it's worth considering.

[Jake Norwood]

Here's a question Jake.  Could the villian, having dispatched his henchmen to do his dirty work (i.e. kill/maim/taunt/etc. the PC's), simply watch the bout from afar and learn some of the Old Dog's tricks (feint, stop short, etc.)?  Or is it that you really need to be involved in the engagement to learn?

Chris

I say that with a Style Analysis roll it's just as if he was there.

Jake

[Sneaky Git]

I say that with a Style Analysis roll it's just as if he was there.

Jake

Cool.  Thanks!

[Lance D. Allen]

Another case where two opponents may fight multiple times without killing each other... Imagine a story where two bladeslingers were apprenticed to the same master, and were best friends, and friendly rivals... Until one day, they both realize they're in love with the master's daughter (or whatever). The rivalry becomes less friendly, and one day something happens, and one of them is forced to leave (flee, leave in disgrace, whatever...) Years down the road, one of them has risen to prominence and sunk into depravity, and few in the land are skilled enough to fight past his many minions, and those who are fall easily to his murderous blade.. Enter the old rival, who has been waiting, and honing his skill for this day, feeding the fires of hatred and vengeance.. And he is the land's only hope.

Sound familiar? Does to me. Any sort of trick too often repeated should come with a penalty. He always feints, or always beats, or always stops short.. I'd say it's Seneschal's call as to whether it's too often repeated.