A question on force weapons and gun blades

[Jasper the Mimbo]

In a game I am in a charecter has a force blade that is supposed to be able to cut through most anything with relative ease. We reciently ported our game to TRoS and cant decide how to stat the sword right. We currantly have it as a dopplehander that cannot be half-sworded, subtracts 2 from the value of all armor and destroys normal weapons with a successful Beat manuver. Another charecter has a gun-blade, FF8 style. This charecter's signature manuver was to thrust with the sword and pull the trigger as he strikes. We cant figure out how to do this in TRoS either. Any ideas. Thanks.

[Shadeling]

In a game I am in a charecter has a force blade that is supposed to be able to cut through most anything with relative ease. We reciently ported our game to TRoS and cant decide how to stat the sword right. We currantly have it as a dopplehander that cannot be half-sworded, subtracts 2 from the value of all armor and destroys normal weapons with a successful Beat manuver. Another charecter has a gun-blade, FF8 style. This charecter's signature manuver was to thrust with the sword and pull the trigger as he strikes. We cant figure out how to do this in TRoS either. Any ideas. Thanks.

Perhaps the gunblade does a Thrusting Shot. As long as the character has it preped and everything, he spends a 3 die activation cost, and blammo! It does ST damage+5 or something like that.

[Mike Holmes]

See the notes on Light sabres here: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=5111

Mike

[Jasper the Mimbo]

Perhaps the gunblade does a Thrusting Shot. As long as the character has it preped and everything, he spends a 3 die activation cost, and blammo! It does ST damage+5 or something like that.[/quote]

I like this idea. Just a new manuver for a special class of weapon. Just one glitch. The sword stats as they stand now are STR+3 damage, the bullet on the other hand has a base damage of 8 when used norm ally as a ranged weapon (It's fairly over the top) If both blade and bullet hit it would do STR+11 damage. Lessening the damage of the bullet when use in this way is an option, but that seems like a cop out to me. On the other hand STR+11 is ludacris damage. How can I balance this. Another thing that we've been toying with is to make it some wierd kind of double strike or surprise attack. I just dont know the system well enough at this point to balance this stuff well.

[arxhon]

Well, you stab a guy and shoot him at point blank range. I'd say he should be dead.

If you really have a problem with this, then perhaps you should lower the damage, take the gun/maneuver/tactic away or find a system that better supports your idea of how the gun should work. You say yourself it is fairly over the top.

Mucking with weapon stats is a normal process of porting games over. Ideally, it's something tht is done before the port, to minimize problems like this one.

Once you figure out a solution, please let us know.

[Ben Lehman]

If both blade and bullet hit it would do STR+11 damage. Lessening the damage of the bullet when use in this way is an option, but that seems like a cop out to me. On the other hand STR+11 is ludacris damage. How can I balance this. Another thing that we've been toying with is to make it some wierd kind of double strike or surprise attack. I just dont know the system well enough at this point to balance this stuff well.

BL>  Hey, Jasper.  I've been thinking more about the gunblade stats, and here is my proposal.  (for those playing along at home, I'm involved in the game, too.)

"Impaling Shot"
Technique
3 CP
After a successful thrusting attack with the Gunblade, the attacker may pull the trigger on the gun.  This is 8 points of damage that may not be parried, dodge, or evaded (it may be absorbed with toughness), and targets the same area as the initial thrust.  It discharges the gun (duh) and usually reduces the target to a pile of ashes.  This may only be used on the second exchange of the round, and only after a thrusting attack.

yrs--
--Ben

P.S.  Tell Calder that I want my book back.

[Ashren Va'Hale]

you could also make the gun single shot and a pain in the arse to reload (prep time 6-10 or something) that will limit it somewhat.

[Jasper the Mimbo]

Thanks Ben. Sounds good to me. I'll run it by Calder. That might solve half the issue. There's still the force blade. I like some of the light saber ideas, but with Freigh's STR it would really be a shame to have a weapon that always did the same amount damage regardless of the power of the person wielding it. Besides, the sword is supposed to be a part of him, you'd think that it would play off his strengths rather than ignoring or bypassing them. The blade may be force but when it's activated it does have mass (quite a bit actually), it's three dimentional, it's just transparent and has an essentially monomolecular edge. Think like Sepheroth's sword from FF7 only a bit wider and wrapped in a Predator-style cloaking cammoflage.
Oh, and, I have your book. If you want it, come get it. Heh, heh.
Also, the light side/ dark side as SA's ideas are genious. If you don't know what I'm talking about, follow Mike's above link. Awesome.

[Callan S.]

Noon thinks: "All the sword is missing is a spoiler and sub woofa's"

Just a humble appraisal, but I thought part of the charm of TROS is that its all very down to earth.  You don't really need strong weapons to kill people, like in a lot of hit point systems, even a dagger can kill.

Its that primal, basic fighting just like the world I'm used to, sort of feel that comes out strongly to me. Thats what appeals to me. For example, if I wanted to play a game of Rifts, I would play it in their system, converting it over to a more down to earth system seems odd when the joy of those characters is their non down to earthness.

That being said, if I do a modern or near future game of TROS, it'll probably have gunblades and swords that extension out from a small rod.

PS: with the gunblade, why does the damage from the gun have to be added onto the blade? It could be, but doesn't have to. Just apply the sword and the gun damage after each other, not stacked on top of each other.

[Jake Norwood]

Just a humble appraisal, but I thought part of the charm of TROS is that its all very down to earth.  You don't really need strong weapons to kill people, like in a lot of hit point systems, even a dagger can kill.

Its that primal, basic fighting just like the world I'm used to, sort of feel that comes out strongly to me. Thats what appeals to me. For example, if I wanted to play a game of Rifts, I would play it in their system, converting it over to a more down to earth system seems odd when the joy of those characters is their non down to earthness.

Amen, amen, amen. Grit, baby.

Jake

[Jasper the Mimbo]

I agree, actually. The sword is off the scale. But it works very well in the context of the game.

Imagine a world caught in the middle of a war between demi gods. One side wants revenge for a few thousand year imprisonment, the other side wants to keep their supremacy but it's slipping out of their grasp, and now both sides have decided that they would rather see the world destroyed than in the hands of their enemies. Now enter the very best that the mortal world has to offer.
Miles: An imperial field medic that now houses the soul of the brooding, angry, dead war god, Kahlan. Any weapon he touches becomes empowered but now he wars with himself for control of his own mind. (Destiny 4: become Kahlan. Passion 4: Stay Miles.)
Will: A Human Weapon (Brawling, 21 dice CP) with extreem social darwinest philosophies, contagious confidence, and a penchant for random destructive violence.
Kesmin:  A Priest of a god that no longer listens, who has discovered that the root of magic lies in the manifestation of his own will, not in channeling divine power. This revelation has cost him dearly.
Kent: A crazed cult leader who never sleeps. Decided that all gods were trouble. Went looking for help in his fight and unfortunately found it, Outside. The power came at the expence of his life and nearly his soul. Sacrificed himself to seal the rift his original bargin made and keep the Darkness at bay. For now.
Freigh: Once, an angel. (The angel of last ditch efforts, as it were.) The only angel with human blood, ever. Taken out of stasis and sent form the Silver City to save the world. Again. Only this time he decided that the only way to save the world was to end the God's War. The only way to end the war was to stop the combatants, or kill them. For this heresey he was cast down. Bereft of wings, armor, magic, or faith he has decided to continue his fight. His only possession. His sword, Freigha, a weapon of pure, focused willpower which houses his human soul and has followed him from heaven.
Not exactly heroes, all driven by their own inner demons to fight devils and angels alike. The four that remain struggle to save a shattered world that fears and hates them, not out of heroic nobility, but because they dare to want to rule their own lives. Or in Will's case, because he's totally insane and thinks killing gods with his fists is a neat idea.
So there it is. The best game I have ever had the privilage to be a part of. Sure, the sword is over the top, like I said. Then again, so is everything else in the game. Just because it's on an epic scale doesn't mean it cant be Gritty. (read Hero's Die by Mattew Stover) We had a great story, great charecters and great mood, and now that we have TRoS we've got the best system I've ever seen as well. (Jake, you rule.)
Wow. Long post. Sorry, I got carried away for a while.

[Callan S.]

It sounds good! But I find with the usual epic games, you tend to loose a particular level of grittyness. I'll define that level as the one where if a guy smashes a bottle open and threatens to stick it in your characters face, both player and PC actually worry about it.

And the thing that makes that grit enjoyable is that, even though the broken bottle scares them, it doesn't mean they can't change the world. When they do...well, it's a bit easier to relate to and connect to it all, perhaps.

Having done a lot of rifts, I find that the more toys that the PC's have, the less blood and snot there is to be found in game, so to speak.

[Jake Norwood]

I hopped in on Ashren's Riddle game as a regular-old-joe player. I plan on sticking with it for a while. Anyway, I loved the fear of that exact kind of thing--even if I've got 6 more dice than my opponent, if he's got a knife and I've got jack, I worry. The 4 of us fought 5 Golen in the snow, and it was one of the most exhilirating monster-fights of my gaming career. TROS is fun, man, and it's the "blood and snot" for me.

That being said, force-swords are pretty damn cool.

Jake

[Jasper the Mimbo]

Rifts bugs me a bit. It's got the same problem I find is the case with most games only twice as bad. Great idea. Poor execution. Tre rules are bent. Case in point: Take the Psionic Worm R.C.C. from the Atlantis book, apply the Cosmo Knight O.C.C. from Phase World. If nothing else the image of a three foot long silver meal worm destroying capital scale starships is amusing.
Anyway, I think that the great thing about Riddle is that regardles of if your game is about a pair of drug addled street rats with no stats above 3 and a terminal case of "In-debt-to-crime-lord-itis" or a crew of walking blenders in riot gear that toss of snide remarks during their weekly "save the world from Dr. Ragnarok" expedition it will be harsh, dark and as close to real as your premise will allow.
I love my force blade. She's my friend.

[Mike Holmes]

You know I don't want to get all ultra-realistic, but, if you've hit someone with a sword, why do you need to put another hole in them? You realize that the sword is capable of inflicting a lot more trauma on somene than a bullet is, right? Given equal tech levels for both objects, I'd say that the gun part of the weapon is really only useful for giving it some range. If the gun is ultra powerful, then why bother with the sword and melee at all? That's the advantage of guns, they have range and are easy to use.

If it's just an atmosphere thing, then I'd just add a point of damage.

Mike