Any freelance RPG editors out there?

[Opsimath]

(reposted from the Publishing forum)

A piece of advice I've heard more than once is that when writing, you should never attempt to be your own editor. Sounds like good advice.

How do you go about finding an editor of professional skill, if you don't have the resources to hire one for part-time work, and don't know one that you can ask favors of?

Any and all advice will be appreciated.

Addendum:  I'm looking for an editor who's looking to get paid by document size, not from a percentage of game sales.  Two of the projects I need edited are intended for free distribution, in support of other, later RPG products that probably won't make much money at all.  I'd be paying for this out of my day-job paycheck.

[quozl]

If anyone at all needs copyediting services, please send me a message.  I am currently only requiring a free copy of the game as payment.

[arkcure]

It's funny.  I was just about to post in search of editing services for RPG's as well.  I was just reading over my game and feel that it needs a thrid party to take a look.  I feel that when somebody is writing multiple pages at a time, it is very easy to get stuck in a repetitive stint and everything just sounds the same.

So I too am looking for an editor in the future, so please post if you do this service, as Opsimath has, and you'll get bookmarked!

[Simon Ringwood]

I have extensive editing experience in the journalistic tradition, but I feel that makes me capable enough to edit RPG works. Drop me a line if you want some editing done -- I won't be charging anything. I just want a free copy, as the other guy said above.

[talysman]

here's a question: when does either Opsimath or Arcure need this editing?

I did editing and layout for monthly agendas and meeting minutes when I worked at a state licensing board. I also did a lot of proofing/editing for my supervisor at my last job, even though it wasn't really what I was being paid to do. that's a total of eight years of experience, plus lots of unpaid experience (and no, I don't type in all lowercase when I'm doing professional work, only when I'm posting on forums or newsgroups.)

but: I have a couple of projects of my own I'm working on, so I can't guarantee a fast turnaround. might take a week or two, depending on the size of the job. if that's reasonable, I'm available; otherwise, I'll be done with my current projects sometime in april.

[Opsimath]

Not immediately, certainly.  Within the next month or six.  I'm doing research in advance of the actual need.

Thanks for the offers, folks.  It's good to know that people are willing to do editing chores for a free copy of the game.  On other boards, I was able to get a variety of quotes for prices by the word, page, and hour, and some of the pros and cons of each.

Next questions:

1) What sort of credentials does one usually require of a prospective editor?  A sample page?  A resumé listing published products that are currently in print?  More?  Less?

2) Is there some sort of work-for-hire contract that is used for this sort of thing?  And/or a non-disclosure agreement?  If anyone can point me to a source for such things, it would be much appreciated.

3) Flowing from the second question, how does one determine if a freelance editor has done their job well?  Presumably, an employee does their job well, or they are let go.  I'm wondering if there is something more than strict personal morals stopping a freelance editor from saying, "[flippityflipflip] I've read every word, it's all perfect, don't change a thing; give me my money now / thanks for the free copy."

[ThreeGee]

Hey Opsimath,

Hah! As if! What kind of editor ever says anything is perfect? A junior editor might be so overwhelmed by your brilliance that he only picks minor nits, but arrogance is the hallmark of an editor. I should know. People depend on me to be the one who points out the obvious.

Honestly, good editing is like a bolt from the blue. Afterwards, you sit around thinking, 'Why didn't I notice/think of that?' If you just cannot see what the editor is talking about, either you are too close to your work or the editor should be in another line of work. Generally, assume the former.

Oh yeah... If anyone needs a hand, I am always willing to take a look for nothing more than a line in the credit. However, my time is limited, so my answer could be to find someone else. No offense meant.

Later,
Grant

[arkcure]

Talysman

I won't need editing for some time to the fact my game is still in it's first draft.

But thanks

[Opsimath]

Hah! As if! What kind of editor ever says anything is perfect?  [snip]

Well, actually what I'm worried about is paying a complete stranger, not knowing if they did more than even skim the document.

I'd be thrilled if an editor handed my work back to me covered in red pen!  That would be educational.  What would worry me is if they found one or two nits in the whole thing.  That's why I'm asking these questions.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Ops,

I suggest working from recommendations and observations here on the Forge. For example, James V. West and Nathan (Paganini) just had some good interactions, in the TQB: Counting the days thread in the Random Order Creations forum.

Can anyone suggest folks who've done quality editing for them? If you're disinclined to go public, for whatever reason, send Ops a private message.

Best,
Ron

[Tar Markvar]

I am a staff writer/editor for a national video gaming magazine, and I love constructively nitpicking others' writing. :) If you're not in a huge hurry (I have work and two or three games I'm running/writing at a time), I'd be happy to look at your work in return for, as the others say, a free copy of your game. Since I'm just starting as a prospective game designer, the chance to see as many games as possible would be an asset. :)

Send me a PM or an IM (in my profile) and let's talk. :)

Tar

[minipainterUS]

1) What sort of credentials does one usually require of a prospective editor?  A sample page?  A resumé listing published products that are currently in print?  More?  Less?

2) Is there some sort of work-for-hire contract that is used for this sort of thing?  And/or a non-disclosure agreement?  If anyone can point me to a source for such things, it would be much appreciated.

3) Flowing from the second question, how does one determine if a freelance editor has done their job well?  Presumably, an employee does their job well, or they are let go.  I'm wondering if there is something more than strict personal morals stopping a freelance editor from saying, "[flippityflipflip] I've read every word, it's all perfect, don't change a thing; give me my money now / thanks for the free copy."

1. - At the very least, you should be able to expect a CV of any accomplishments, whether it be in the gaming industry or outside.

2. - A standard work for hire contract should be available, as well as one with a clause re: non-disclosure. If you can't find a source for one, it might be in your best interests to have a lawyer draft such a document for you.

3. - Sadly, you can only judge the alleged effort by the history of the editor in question and the results of their efforts. If I ever got a 100+ page document back from an editor with only minor structural alterations, I would fire them immediately! My personal choice is to pay someone well for the work they are contracted to do. This gives me some form of recourse in the event they do not perform as promised. But them again, I am a surly individual who believes that free services are worth exactly what you pay for them.

[Dav]

Apophis has had good things come out of Derek Guder as a copyeditor.  

However, one thing strikes me as a question here:

Do you just want grammatical/continuity/spelling work, or do you want the whole 9 yards?  9 yards being: content, mechanics, and layout flow.  Do you want an editor and lead tester in one (which is ALWAYS good), or just an editor?

Dav

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Opsimath first posted in the beginning of March. For this thread to continue, I'd like to get some confirmation that he or she is still reading the replies.

Without that, we can take a more general discussion of editing to the Publishing forum.

Best,
Ron

[Opsimath]

Opsimath first posted in the beginning of March. For this thread to continue, I'd like to get some confirmation that he or she is still reading the replies.

I am reading them.  I'm a bit disappointed by the responses, but perhaps that's because Connections was not the right forum for this question after all.  In retrospect, the Subject line I picked was misleading.  My fault.

Without that, we can take a more general discussion of editing to the Publishing forum.

I originally posted my question to Publishing here: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=5444, where a general discussion was exactly what I was hoping for.  This wasn't intended to be an Editor Wanted ad, but a request for advice on finding, contracting, and determining competence of a freelance editor.