Donjon Pak B1 - Monster Stat Calculation

[Zak Arntson]

I've got a question on how you determined your monster stats. As an example, the Dragon Wizard. It's an 11th level creature, so it should get 15 + (5/level) points for Flesh Wounds, Abilities and Saves (as per the Donjon rulebook). But when I add them up, I get 66. Is this just a clerical error in the book? Or is there something I'm missing?

PS - Donjon stuff so takes me back. I can't believe I'm calculating monster stats! :)

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Zak,

I think you're adding them wrong - I just added it up and got 70, which is the correct number. Are you missing the 4 from Fly or Alter Size? (Yes, it has six Abilities, which is totally legal.)

[Zak Arntson]

Man, how weird is this: I got your reply, went back, re-added (and this is my third or fourth time summing 'em), and got 66.

So I went back to this message, then went back to the book, re-added and got 70. Now it won't not add up to 70. Freakin' weird.

Donjon Pak B1 rolled a fact: "He can't add to save his life".

Anyhow, thanks!

[jdagna]

PS - Donjon stuff so takes me back. I can't believe I'm calculating monster stats! :)

I just can't believe that you're calculating stats on monsters that have already been calculated! :)

[Zak Arntson]

Well, I'm starting work on my own Donjon supplement, and I was poking around in B1.

[Bob McNamee]

Say Clinton, Zak etc...

I've still got my original drawing idea for the "Daolite", which I renamed a "Cairn-ivore"...and somewher around I've got a basic idea of what a 'Cairn-ivore' does, but I never got around to writing it up.

I'd be willing to donate the drawing to someone making an official Donjon supplement.
Its the second pic on the page (click for a larger version)
http://www.geocities.com/bob_mcnamee/html/art.htm

[Bob McNamee]

I'll donate the idea too!

[John Harper]

Speaking of Donjon Pak monster stats, am I wrong in thinking that none of the monsters have been given their Attribute bonuses?

The Lich (level 8) has attributes that total 20. This is in the 1st-level range for an adventurer. The Dragon King (level 25!) has a Virility of 5? Wha? It looks like the "extra attribute die every third level" was not added to the monsters. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding something. It seems like a creature like the Dragon King that "towers over man-made structures" should have a higher Virility than a Skeleton.

[TAROT]

The Lich (level 8) has attributes that total 20. This is in the 1st-level range for an adventurer.

Monsters start with 18 for attributes, and gain one for every third level, so:

Level 1-2 -> 18;  3-5 -> 19;   6-8 -> 20, etc.

Adventurers are, on average, better off than monsters of the same level. (Of course the monsters, in general, outnumber the adventurers.)

OTOH, I have noticed, not so much that high-level creatures have poor stats, but that some low-level beasties have some obnoxiously high ones. When I'm making a puddle of goo, or mindless undead I'm putting 0 or 1 into Cerebrality and Sociality, which means that somewhere else is going a 6-8.

Extreme example:

Screaming Mushroom - Level 3

Vigor 0
Cereb 0
Discern 14
Adroit 0
Where 5
Soc 0

Save vs. Ill 2
Save vs. PPT 2
Flesh Wounds 4

Notice Trespassers 6
Make Annoying Sound 6
Summon Monster 6 - equivalent to Cast Spells
Resistant to Cudgeling 2
Eat Decomposing Matter 2

The summoning ability isn't hugely effective (due to lack of Cerebrality), but it gets to try often. :)

[John Harper]

Monsters start with 18 for attributes, and gain one for every third level

Ah... I see. Hmmm. My impulse is to just go through now and give all the monsters the attributes they "should" have (like bumping the Dragon King's Vir to 10 or so) but I'm afraid that will skew their effectiveness so much that the levels and abilities as written won't make sense. I dunno. I'll have to think about this one some more.

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Feng and Tarot,

You both have good points: because the main effectiveness of a creature is reflected in its Abilities, not Attributes, a high-level creature's Attributes do not reflect its real power. (Its Abilities, on the other hand, do.) In addition, a low-level creature with a 0 or 1 in an Attribute can have an over-powerful attribute because of this.

My solutions: the former problem, I don't worry about. A Dragon King, for example, will still whip most characters, and his Virility doesn't come into play nearly as much as his Abilities. (Attributes, in all honesty, could have been done away with in the design. As it is, their slow rate of increase and the Abilities' high rate of increase specialize characters as they gain levels in a tremendous fashion. A considered idea, and one that I perhaps should have done, would have been to allow 3 ability points to equal 1 attribute point when characters advance a level.

The latter problem - I'll drop a creature's Attributes if they don't make sense.

[Matt Wilson]

Just an idea: You could apply some kind of attribute max to creatures based on their level, so that putting low scores onto creatures will forfeit you some points.

Level 1-2: 8
Level 3-5: 9
etc.