Choke up and reverse grip...

[Bankuei]

Just got back from some serious training, and two pretty common manuevers came to mind...

Choke up(if someone's got a better name, please suggest...)

Used for stuff like staves, spears, and longer polearms, it allows you to reduce the reach for thrust by 1 range by shifting your grip more towards the middle.  You can also use the middle of the pole to smack people or defend at 2 ranges shorter.  This costs 1 CP to choke up, or to go back to normal grip.

Reverse Grip
Also known as the "ice pick" grip for knives and shortswords, this grip allows you to work at hand range(for shortswords), and gives a +1 CP bonus to grapple(hooking actions, etc). If you have both hands free, it costs 1 CP to switch from normal to reverse grip or vice versa.  If you only have one hand free, it costs 2 CP.

Chris

[Shadeling]

Just got back from some serious training, and two pretty common manuevers came to mind...

Choke up(if someone's got a better name, please suggest...)

Used for stuff like staves, spears, and longer polearms, it allows you to reduce the reach for thrust by 1 range by shifting your grip more towards the middle.  You can also use the middle of the pole to smack people or defend at 2 ranges shorter.  This costs 1 CP to choke up, or to go back to normal grip.

Reverse Grip
Also known as the "ice pick" grip for knives and shortswords, this grip allows you to work at hand range(for shortswords), and gives a +1 CP bonus to grapple(hooking actions, etc). If you have both hands free, it costs 1 CP to switch from normal to reverse grip or vice versa.  If you only have one hand free, it costs 2 CP.

Chris

Choke-up=Half-Sword IMHO
Don't know about the Reverse grip thing.

[Bankuei]

Choke-up=Half-Sword IMHO
Don't know about the Reverse grip thing.

Would it be "half-staff" or "half-spear"?  It is, really the same idea, except for pole weapons, in which it makes a lot of sense.  You don't get the additional bonus to pierce armor, since there's not that much of a change in how the weapon is used, just mostly a change in distance.  You might want to institute a -1 damage to swings though...

As far as the reverse grip, make a "thumbs up" with your hand.  Most people hold their knives and swords in the forward position, pointing up, like the thumb.  The reverse grip has the pommel pointing up like the thumb, with the knife or shortsword pointing downward.  Its excellent for closer ranged attacks and defense, and is great for hooking around arms and the neck.

Chris

[Jake Norwood]

The rondell dagger was almost always held in a reverse grip. For those weapons that are meant to be used that way, the dip is allready in the chip.

I agree that "half-staffing" so to speak is best represented by shortening your reach on the weapon, and penalizing TNs once you've shifted 2 or 3 range categories.

Jake

[Bankuei]

The rondell dagger was almost always held in a reverse grip. For those weapons that are meant to be used that way, the dip is allready in the chip.

Cool, good to go then.

Chris

[Lance D. Allen]

I've heard of the reverse grip by two separate names in SCA fighting. Either "Christian" which involves a sword held blade down, so that it's like a cross (I think there's more to it.. I've only heard it discussed, never actually seen the style) or "inverted", which is a style my house leader uses with his greatsword in certain circumstances. I do not know the merits of these styles, however, as I've not progressed quite far enough to think beyond basic maneuevers.

[Bankuei]

We also use the term inverse grip, although I was trying to use a term that "hopefully" more people would get.   In terms of longer weapons(than knives) it works better for close range defense, since you can hold it against your arm or body, at a shorter distance.  Anything beyond a shortsword, it becomes only really good for slashing in most cases.  Although an extra option becomes available:  using the handle to bop people either for a quick stun, or as a less lethal attack.

Chris

[Jake Norwood]

While that may be the case, the only acceptable IRL reason for a reverse grip that I can think of is thrusting power--with anything longer than a knife you're looking at a list of disadvantages long enough to get you killed in a hurry. As for the SCA's "Christian" and other names for it, there is nothing that I'm aware of in the historical sources that even suggests inverting your grip on anything but a knife. It's like fighting with 2 arming swords or long swords--it might work in play, but the second rules and "saftey" goes out the window, you're toast.

Jake

[Bankuei]

Like I said, knives and short swords, the stuff with katanas held in reverse grip is stuff for show, etc.  Anything longer is a bad idea...

Chris

[Mike Holmes]

While that may be the case, the only acceptable IRL reason for a reverse grip that I can think of is thrusting power--with anything longer than a knife you're looking at a list of disadvantages long enough to get you killed in a hurry.

Yeah, if I'm not mistaken the big advantage of the "inverted" grip with a sword is that it looks cooler. ;-)

Using the rondel to pierce armor would require the downward blow. But against an unarmored man, you use even the knife like a sword. For two reasons. One, the little extra reach may be important. Second, if you hit someone with a knife you need to get through ribs. That's only going to happen with a horizontal cut or thrust. A vertical downward motion is going to just skip off ribs.

Least that's what my Vietnam vet Drill Sergeant told me.

Mike

[Enoch]

I always thought knife fighters would hold their knives in reverse grip with the blade facing forward.  Heard it from one of my old Tang Soo Do instructors so I don't really trust it (God I hated that place).

-Joshua

[Mike Holmes]

I always thought knife fighters would hold their knives in reverse grip with the blade facing forward.

shoulda known it was hooey right there. Any good knife has an edge on both sides so it can be swung either way. Any advantage that a scimitar might be able to get with a longer blade (let's not get into that debate again), would be totally negated in a knife.

Mike

[Bankuei]

The main reason we use reverse grip for knives is because you can hook with them, which is a big advantage for grappling.  It also makes sneaky attacks if your opponent isn't aware that you have a knife.

Chris

[Jake Norwood]

I've been training with a rondell, which is primarily a thrusting knife. Against a weapon of equal or shorter length the reverse grip has the advantage. Against a longer weapon I'd go to a forward grip.

Jake