alterations

[trelliz]

Could LF be adapted to use miniatures, as i can't get my head round these "hypothetical" situations where you can't see for yourself what's going on, and you have to rely on the GM to feed you info.

Also, is there anywhere you can download the rules, as i intent to buy LF but i haven't got any cash at the moment, and i want to get into this.

[jburneko]

On 2001-08-25 04:51, trelliz wrote:
Could LF be adapted to use miniatures, as i can't get my head round these "hypothetical" situations where you can't see for yourself what's going on, and you have to rely on the GM to feed you info.

Since I have not read little fears I don't know much about the 'combat' system and how usefull minitures would be.  I don't know how you or your GM plays in general but I have suggestion that makes NOT using minitures very easy.  Let the PLAYERS' 'hypothetical' vision of the area change what things are where and what's at hand.

If the player says, 'I roll and duck for cover behind a protruding rock?' I generally say, okay and assume the player is behind a rock.  Did I (the GM) say or show you that there was a protruding rock?  No. But let's say the game is taking place in a cave. It's not unreasonable to assume that there's a prodruding rock somewhere.  

I put my footdown when people start abusing the priveledge just to gain lots and lots of advantage and not to add excitement to the scene.  So if EVERYONE starts ducking for cover behind a rock I say things like, 'No there's only enough cover for two of you.  Or something.'  My general rule is that no one should ever repeat a stunt in a given scene or preferably in a given session.

But the point is as long as the details are adding to the exicitement of the scene I let the player's make them up.  Minitures really bother me because it cramps the imaginative style of both myself as the GM and my players.  But that's just me.

Jesse

[Clinically Insane]

 Little Fears is not much of a tactical game. That being said the need for minatures are not an absolute requirement. Though one could use minatures as props and to add a little atmosphere. Not to mention give the players something to play with like children. Just another little something to enhance and stimulate the imagination of a well rounded Little Fears campaign.

Though finding kid minatures is not the easiest task?

[peteramthor]

I can't think of any kid miniatures that I have ever seen anywhere.  I used to be a mini painter fanatic about five years ago and was always looking for the odd stuff anyways but I don't recall ever seeing anything for children.

I'm sure somebody somewhere has made some though.  Or you could just use some hobbit minis :smile:

[Clinically Insane]

Well I did just buy the Haunted House Floor Plan from Steve Jackson Games and it included a sheet of cardboard cutouts. And it had two kid cutouts with it, one zombie boy and one ghost girl, not excatly what I would like. They also offer other such floor plan sets and even a 400 character set, bound to have a few kids in it?

Had no luck finding any metal minatures. But if I find any I'll let everyone here know.

[Laura Bishop]

I'm not really of the opinion that mini's are necessary for LFs either, but that said, if you're a visual kinda person, maybe use the little coloured plastic men from Candyland?

There are usually four colours (red, green, blue, yellow) and if not exactly child shaped themselves (They're more gingerbread man shaped, it being CANDYland. Mmmm, gingerbread mens...), what says childhood more?

It's about $9-10 bucks for a game, and I think there are two of each colour -- 8 pieces for $10.  As minis usually run $3 a pop each, you'd get off pretty cheap. ; )

If you don't want to go buy a whole game, maybe raid your closet -- or a younger siblings if you have any.  There's bound to be something you can use.  Garage sales are also a good place to find old kid games.

Here's me, with all the random tips and tricks.

_________________

-- L

[ This Message was edited by: Laura Bishop on 2001-08-26 23:55 ]

[FilthySuperman]

For about the fourth time in this thread, I too, want to reiterate that this game doesn't seem to be the most conducive game for minis...
but..
It seems to me that it would be a great idea to, as opposed to using children minis, to use a toy that represents your child character. Say one kid has a toysoldier, in character it's his toy he carries around, for the player.. it's your "miniature" representation of your character. Another one has a candy cane, another one has a matchbox car, and yet another has a crayon. You could just use it as a loose little idea to make up for the lack of child minis, or you could institute it as part of your game making each object significant in the storyline and a part of the character.

Maybe Jason could write up some quick rules to do this with.


T.

[trelliz]

Has anybody here heard of the PC game 'American Mcgee's Alice'? I had an idea when i first heard of LF, that an Alice conversion would be pretty cool. you could include Alice's 'Toys' as objects, and create the enemies as monsters, with the bosses standing in for the seven kings (the Alice bosses are scary enough, i played through the game, locked it a cupboard and never taken it out since).

What do you lot reckon? Genius or crap?

[Mytholder]

Hmm...I'm not sure about the Alice computer game, not having played it, but there might be some funkiness ensuing from using Alice in Wonderland as source material. Maybe Lewis Carroll was unwittingly picking up on elements of a region of Closetland. (Tim Powers does an amazing riff on this, where he suggests that "Alice" was actually a ghost trapped by Carroll, and she was describing how ghosts see the world...Powers comes up with loads of quotes from the books to support this...)

[Laura Bishop]

A Little Fears to Alice conversion is actually fairly plausible.

The Alice > Little Fears game would be what Jason called a Faery Tale from the Once Upon A Time... section found on pg. 56.  It wouldn't be the "true horror" setting we're all used to talking about when discussing LFs, but that doesn't make it any less Little Fears-y.

While LFs was written with the intent of the True Horror Setting, the others are not any less in the childhood terror vein.  It makes it almost scarier.  In True Horror, you (at least as a Player) sort of expect the dripping tentacle to reach out and grab you from under the bed.  In Dark Faery Tale mode, you're not always waiting for the Red Queen's Card Men to be wielding rusty axes around your head.

Also, as an after thought, Little Fears done in the way of a dark faery tale may be "safer" for some of your less intrepid players.  Maybe they're not comfortable with things like Titana who bathes in blood or the Defiler (for the obvious reasons), but if its presented in a Grimms Fairy Tale/McGee's Alice it becomes all good.  That's one of the things I like most about Little Fears - it's versatility in setting and atmosphere.

It's a different vibe, the Dark Faery Tale - sure, but one that can be extremely cool if done well. : )

[trelliz]

Coming back to the question of minatures in RPG's, have you heard of the Games Workshop game Warhammer Quest? that does RPGing with minis as well as using information from the GM (As in, the models move into the room, the GM tells them about the room, the players ask if they can do stuff. it works quite well).

[Laura Bishop]

Indeed, I have seen Warhammer Quest.  It was incredibly popular in my old city along with your more vanilla Warhammer 40K.

But, as we're going back to the original question: is it that you're having problems visualizing these situations your GM is giving to you, or do you just feel more comfortable seeing all your "options" as it was with a drawn map and a mini you yourself can move around?  These are both PoVs I can understand fully.  I myself am a List Maker.

If you're not familiar with this startling phenomenon, it means I make a list for EVERYTHING: the grocery store, Things To Do around the house, CDs I want to buy, RPGs scenes I need to play, places to duck and cover, people to avoid, etc...  Most of these I make in my head (now), but sometimes there's something to be said for holding a scrap of paper in your grubby hand and just ticking the items off one by one.  A common side effect of List Making is Plan Making.  I don't like jumping in blindly - anywhere - whether this be in my real life or in an RPG (unless the character has been designed to be a rash and impulsive thinker, and even then I'm thinking ahead for her, even if it's just to throw her into more trouble. ; ).

All this long expectanterinia was used to illustrate that, no, really, whether it's a visualizing issue or a control issue, I'm there with you.  And, just to digress for a moment, I don't mean "control issue" in a negative connotation.  You want some control on what you can see and what you - your mini - can do.  If that control is real or perceived usually doesn't matter, just the illusion is necessary.  I'm there with you, brother.  

But, to bring this whole sloppy mess back to the original issue at hand: if its a visualization problem, by all means ask your GM to sketch out a map.  Something so you know where everyone is, where the big trees are, and how far you have to sprint before you're out of arm's reach.  Also, don't be afraid to ask for detail.  Sure, there's a grove of trees in this meadow: how many trees?  Are they all the same height?  What about branches low enough for you to grab onto?  Wind fell fruit anywhere?  Details like these might clear some stuff up.

If it's the other, you want to see your options, perhaps ask your GM to do some hex-maps before hand and plant your avatar (Candyland Gingerbread Men, Hobbit Minis, GI Joe Guys, whatever) where YOU want to and move them how YOU want to. Be up front with your GM -- something I am ALWAYS advocating -- about what your expectations (Social Contract) are.  If you're not comfortable with so much free form-ness, explain that and see if you can't reach some sort of compromise.

As for actual, written and sanctioned by Key 20, mini rules for Little Fears (was this what you were asking for?  Or just for Mini Rules in general), I'm still of the opinion those aren't necessary.  Little Fears seems to be written with the Narritivest in mind: the most bang for your story creating buck.  It's system is light and sleek, allowing for amazing versatility with heavy, heavy emphasis on characterization.  When you get your copy (Haven't you gotten it already?!?!  What do you mean this isn't required reading yet?!?) I think you'll see that right away.  This isn't to say minis in Little Fears are BAD, I just think it moves away from the original premise of the game.

There are two tons of mini-rule systems that could easy be incorporated into Little Fears.  GURPS comes to mind first, but that's me and my childhood dedication to Steve Jackson. ; )  Check out http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/>GURPS Lite from SJ Games' website: http://www.sjgames.com>http://www.sjgames.com. It's a PDF of the Basic Set boiled down, but it also includes its movement rules.  Also, if you're familiar with Warhammer Quest, maybe see about incorporating their movement rules into Little Fears.  I only know it by reputation, not by actual play, so I'm sorry I can't offer better advice in that area. : )

I think I'll take my little impassioned self over here now...

I'm sure I have a list to make. ; )

-- L

[[ Edited because http works a lot better than hppt. : P ]]

[ This Message was edited by: Laura Bishop on 2001-08-28 15:09 ]

[Ronin_Mage]

One possibility that you can use for miniatures are those Lego Men. I think you can buy them seperately now.  This would help to keep the mood of the game since they are toys and serve as minis.  

Also, I am working on incorporating Candyland into my game whereas where you are on the board determines your initiative.

[trelliz]

I am quite annoyed. i NEARLY bought LF, but i went with a Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator 2 WWI upgrade instead. DAMN! i might take the CFS2 thingy back, and stroll down the road, into the games shop, and buy LF (There's only one copy left on the shelf, so i'd better hurry).

[trelliz]

today i DID buy LF. I've read the entire book, and i've had some ideas. has anyone heard 'Enter Sandman' by Metallica(if you have, you know perfectly well that it's BEGGING to be made into a LF game)?
Reflecting on it, all fairy-tales are niced-up horror stories! other Metallica songs relevant to LF are 'Until it Sleeps', 'of wolf and man', and 'Devil's Dance'. (Metallica are good, and aren't weirdos, so don't think that all their songs are like this)