So you have something you want to sell...

[iago]

Where do you go from there?

I see that Clinton has recommended PayPal, and RPGNow has certainly gotten some press in past posts.

Which method have you (or would you) picked?

What recommends that method?

What were the pitfalls?

What would you do differently about selling something else in the future?

(A few searches left me with the sense that there are some answers to this here and there in the fora, but I didn't run across something that seemed to consolidate opinion, so I'm asking here.  If I've missed something obvious, mea culpa.)

[iago]

I get the impression I asked stinker questions, missed some obvious step research-wise, or there is some other factor at play in the silence.  Not complaining, but I could use some enlightenment, private or public!

In a vacuum, I forsee myself using RPGNow, if only because it would save me the trouble of setting up a storefront -- but any stories from the field would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Fred,

You just asked on a bad weekend - Ron's getting ready for GAMA, and I was gone all weekend, and others - well, I saw few posts.

That said, I don't have a recommendation for you. RPGnow works very well, as does PayPal, and they have about equal pros and cons.

[iago]

That said, I don't have a recommendation for you. RPGnow works very well, as does PayPal, and they have about equal pros and cons.

Was there anything in particular that swayed your own decision towards PayPal?

Thanks for reminding me about it being a bad weekend.  My own weekend involved a lot of puttering around on the computer working on a game of my own, so I think I had a little myopia with regards to the rest of the world. :)

[Mike Holmes]

I think that PayPal has the obvious advantage that lots of people are already signed up for it. This makes them less adverse to using it as a payment method. At another site, they might have to do the whole card number entry thing and all the personal info yet again. That can be a killer to what might otherwise be an impulse sale.

OTOH, PayPal is far from perfect. For example, I cannot use it because somehow my initial attempt at becoming a member got messed up, and now I can't seem to get it straightened out. So when PayPal is the only option you lose me as a customer, likely. And anyone else in my position.

That said, I don't know that any other system is less fallible this way.

Mike

[iago]

Mike's tale, below, seems to make a decent case that looking for at least two non-exclusivity-demanding storefront vendors could have a real, positive benefit when looking to produce sales in the indie rpg market.

Agree, disagree?

(I have not yet researched to see if RPGNow fits this bill; I don't see how PayPal wouldn't.)

I think that PayPal has the obvious advantage that lots of people are already signed up for it. This makes them less adverse to using it as a payment method. At another site, they might have to do the whole card number entry thing and all the personal info yet again. That can be a killer to what might otherwise be an impulse sale.

OTOH, PayPal is far from perfect. For example, I cannot use it because somehow my initial attempt at becoming a member got messed up, and now I can't seem to get it straightened out. So when PayPal is the only option you lose me as a customer, likely. And anyone else in my position.

That said, I don't know that any other system is less fallible this way.

[Jeph]

There are also those, like me, who will never use PayPal. EVER. I just know too many people who got burned by it. That clause about them freezing your account and not having to tell you why really bears reading.

[iago]

There are also those, like me, who will never use PayPal. EVER. I just know too many people who got burned by it. That clause about them freezing your account and not having to tell you why really bears reading.

Any chance of a more detailed accounting of the  burning?

[Valamir]

First many of the stories are myth.  Second if you have an account with a bank you are already subject to the same restrictive clauses that PayPal puts you through.  I've gone to the sites and read the supposed "horror stories" and 9 times in 10 the fault is clearly (for those familiar with how banking works) the customers and the other time is the same kind of common processing errors that every bank in the country makes on a daily basis.  

Where PayPal historically has had problems is because its designed to be very automated and it makes money on very small margins.  As a result they are very thinly staffed, so if there is a customer service issue, that takes a human being to resolve it can take a good bit of time.  I've heard this has gotten a little better since Ebay bought them.

Financial institutions (in the U.S.) are REQUIRED to monitor where money goes, especially in amounts over $10,000 (and if you think that means you're safe doing $9,999 you're not).  In the post 9/11 Patriot Act world the responsibilities of the institution is even greater.  If you're doing something suspicious and the institution DOESN'T stop you...the institution is in big trouble.  Right now your bank where you deposit your paycheck could freeze your assets without having to tell you why, and your only recourse would be to go through the courts.  Its been that way since at least the mid-80s spawned by the War on Drugs and the desire to freeze drug assets.

To let this clause scare you from using PayPal makes little sense unless you also refuse to use Bank savings and checking accounts which have the same ability.

Problems like Mike's arise due to the automated account set up process.  If you hook PayPal to a checking account there are various hoops you need to jump through.  If you do it right, bada bing, up and running with no problem.  If you screw it up, the anti fraud measures on the system will blacklist you until a human actually sorts it out...which as above is where the service suffers.  Common problems include exiting out of a screen before the processing is done, or not entering the amounts of the token deposits (a security measure) correctly.

I've used PayPal for years.  Changed my user name, changed accounts, added accounts, set up automatic ordering buttons, converted currency, even cancelled payments made and refused payments made to me and never once had an issue.

[Jeph]

There are also those, like me, who will never use PayPal. EVER. I just know too many people who got burned by it. That clause about them freezing your account and not having to tell you why really bears reading.

Any chance of a more detailed accounting of the  burning?

Here's one that almost got me, too: http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41418

To sum it up, the guy who runs ENworld used PayPal to collect community supporter accounts. PayPal froze his accoutn. With ~$2,000 in it, IIRC. Money in it is unretrievable until they open it again, which, as of late, they have not done. If Piratecat sees this thread (I know he comes here sometimes, he's one of the admins at ENworld), he can elaborate.

[Clay]

For all the evil things said about paypal, there are plenty of evil things about getting the credit card processing direct from the bank. It's a pain and it's expensive and the hoop-jumping is even greater. Unless you have a physical business location with an actual storefront it's nearly impossible without some intermediary.  Your online processing issues also get a lot more complicated.

Dealing with credit card processing on the internet is hairy enough that last summer I helped one of my customers move away from using their merchant account to using PayPal.  They have reported much greater satisfaction with PayPal than they ever had with their merchant account.

[rpghost]

Don't forget some simple math too...

RPGNow:
- 65% of customers use Credit cards - NOT PAYPAL. Are you ready to give up those sales?
- 18000 customers that could be yours
- 500 + people a day view your product on our front page
- Gold Vendors get email lists, press releases, cheap advertising, source tracking, and much more.

PAYPAL:
- Only people buying are people you convince to visit your site
- People new to paypal are forced to setup an account and wait
- Paypal is NOT a bank. They don't operate under standard laws. They can and do seize accounts.
- No automated download features- you have to write your own store or manually process every order (which leads to mistakes and problems).

I typed in a wrong email address once and sent someone $1500... It cost me $60 and took 3 weeks to get it back. On another occation I sent $1600 to someone, only to find out his account got seized by Paypal and the money never given back. I only accept paypal cause there are people who like it (as it couldn't happen to them) but definatlly do not leave money in your account at any time!

James
http://www.rpgnow.com

P.S. Of course I'm bias :)