Do Dice Systems Want to be Free?

[Tar Markvar]

I'm working on some games right now (which I'll post to Indie Games once I have them in an alpha form), and my weakness is definitely in coming up with systems. In trying to come up with systems that fit my games, I found myself looking about and picking and choosing from others' systems what I liked.

My question is, I guess, just how "open source" are the systems people publish? For example, I have a game I'm working on that runs on a system that, it turns out, is a bit like that from Godlike, with a few twists and turns based on the fact that I hadn't seen Godlike when I decided to use the system. Is it considered "bad form" to use a system that's similar to a published one, even if the setting and certain implementations of the system are completely different?

I don't want to come across as a "biter." I was genuinely disappointed when I realized how much my system resembles Godlike (dice pool, gather doubles or better), even with its differences (mine uses d6, doesn't use "width" for timing, requires a double-3 or better for success, double-1s are "botches"). My setting is hugely different from Godlike, for what it's worth--Heaps of cartoony violence vs. Godlike's realistic WWII supers.

Are resolution mechanics "open source"? Should I scrap my system and try to shoot for something different?

Thanks,

Jay

[DaR]

I'm not a lawyer, but from my understanding of such things, from a legal standpoint you're absolutely free and clear.  The actual mechanics of a game cannot be copyrighted, patented, or anything else.  The names of various terms (like Plot Points) can be trademarked (this being the operative idea behind the Open Gaming Content versus Product Identity distinction in the Open Gaming License).  As long as you're not copying any trademarked terms or copyrighted text (word for word explanations), you're technically fine.  

From the standpoint of being a "biter", I'd say that as long as you acknowledge the similarities (perhaps in your Author's/Designer's notes section, or in an appropriate "Influences" appendix), you're unlikely to draw any ill will.  In fact, citing influences of other games is likely to give you some amount of ready market, in the form of people who liked the systems that yours draws similarity from.  I know I've bought games strictly because they had good mechanical influences.  Rune by Robin Laws being a prime example of that.

From the sound of it, your mechanic is only passingly similar to the ORE, given that it lacks the whole distinction between wide and tall results, uses different dice, and a matched pair doesn't automatically indicate a success, and may even be a botch.  Your system is certainly sounds more distinct from ORE than, for example, original Paladium is from AD&D, or Unisystem is from Ars Magica.

If you're truly worried about stepping on toes, Greg Stolze's the one who designed the ORE system for Godlike.  Contact him and ask if he sees a potential problem.  I doubt he will.

-DaR

[Mike Holmes]

I'm no lawyer either, but I just thought that it might be comforting to hear another voice say that he thinks the same. That is, AFAIK, Dan is right in every detail above.

Mike

[Gordon C. Landis]

I am not a lawyer, either, but my understanding is that essentially all the above is correct - you've got nothing to worry about.

But I do have a minor quibble - it is entirely possible patent a game design, and it has been done many times (most notably for us RPG-folk by WotC with the Magic:The Gathering card game).  But I doubt that's going to cause your particular situation any issues, and the world of patents is . . . far too arcane and bizare to get into here.

Good luck with the game,

Gordon

[szilard]

I actually am a lawyer, but I haven't taken the bar exam so I am precluded from offering legal advice under monopolistic ABA rules. So I am not offering legal advice, and my words should not be construed as such.

blah.

That said, generally patent law only applies to innovations and not to things which are clearly building upon prior art. ORE's height and width might qualify as innovative here. Moreover, there are many games in which you roll up a bunch of d6s and only look at matches (not all of them are RPGs).

This is beside the point, though, since even if ORE is patentable, it probably hasn't been patented.

Anyway, Jay's question wasn't whether it was legal, but whether it was 'bad form' to use a similar die mechanic. I think that as long as you acknowledge the similarity (assuming there is a serious similarity), then you're not being a jerk about it.

Stuart

[Tar Markvar]

Thanks, guys. That's what I figured, but it's good to hear.

I think my best bet might be to try to contact Greg Stolze and see if he minds. Just in case.

Thanks again,

Jay