Dark Sun racial packages

[Dave Turner]

I'm an old school Dark Sun fan and the recent thread of a TROS/Dark Sun blend got me really excited.  I've created some potential racial packages and I'd appreciate any criticism that can be spared.  :)

Race and Sorcery:

Priority A: Sorcerers, Thri-kreen, Half-giants
Priority B: Dwarves, Elves, Muls
Priority C: Half-Elves, Halflings
Priority D-F: Humans

Thri-Kreen racial package: +1 AG, EN, and PER (Thri-kreen are dexterous, tireless, and alert), -2 SOC (The kreen mindset is very alien to other humanoids), chitin (acts as full chain suit without penalties, prevents kreen from wearing regular armor), extra set of arms (bonus undetermined)

Half-giant racial package: +3 STR, +2 TO, Max. STR = 13 (Half-giants are enormously strong and resilient), +2 Move bonus (Their size grants them a longer stride), -1 AG (Half-giants are clumsy), -2 MA (Half-giants are notoriously slow-witted), Flaw: half-giants can't become sorcerors

Dwarf racial package: +1 TO and HT (Dwarves are enduring), -1 WIT (Dwarven single-mindedness makes them a bit inflexible), Focus (dwarves may select a Drive SA that receives a +2 bonus.  This particular SA can rise to 7.  If the Focus Drive ever drops to 0 without being resolved, the dwarf dies and returns as an undead banshee), one bonus Craft/Trade at SR -1

Elf racial package: +1 AG and SOC (Elves are lithe and charismatic), -1 TO (Elves are known for their fragility), +3 Move bonus (Elves have long, powerful legs that are uniquely suited for running), Elven Run (If unencumbered or mildly encumbered, elves can make a Move check vs. TN 8 to enter a trance-like state known as the Elven Run.  Each success adds a temporary +1 to their Move score for calculating daily overland distance traveled.  Every continuous day after the first adds a cumulative +1 to the Move check TN.  Once an elf fails a check or reaches his destination, he receives 3 pts of Fatigue for each day in the run.)

Mul racial package: +2 EN (Muls are seemingly immune to fatigue), +1 STR (Muls combine human size and dwarven solidity to good effect), -1 WIT (Muls share the dwarven predilection for single-mindedness), Mul Endurance (Muls accumulate Fatigue at a much slower rate than other races.  If engaged in combat or strenuous work with heavy armor on or while encumbered, muls pick up a point of Fatigue every EN x 1 hours.  If unencumbered or unarmored, muls pick up a point of Fatigue every EN x 4 hours.)

Halfling racial package: +1 AG (Halflings have tremendous hand-eye coordination), +1 PER (Jungle life sharpens every halfing sense), -1 ST (Halfings' small frames and musculature don't compare to those of larger humanoids), Sneak at SR 6 (All Halflings are expert stalkers), Survival: Forest/Jungle at SR 7 (Halfings know the ways of the jungle), Swimming at SR 7 (an extremely rare skill on Athas, but common to the jungle-dwelling Halflings), Flaw: Little, Flaw: halflings can't become sorcerors

Half-elf racial package: +1 AG (Half-elves have some elven grace), -1 SOC (Half-elves are distrusted by both human and elven cultures), Gift: Animal Kin (minor) (Half-elves often turn to animals for companionship), +1 proficiency (Half-elves often have to defend themselves from bullies)

Sorcerors: If a player wishes to be a sorceror, he simply chooses Priority A and picks which race the character will be.

EDIT: Forgot to mention one thing: I'm not sure how to incorporate the extra set of arms that thri-kreen have into the system.  My biggest concern would be its impact on the combat system.

[Shadeling]

You have the ideas of MA and Wit swapped. Just take a look at the slow-learning, unchanging(single-minded) Fey in the book. They receive an MA penalty. MA has nothing to do with being slow-witted, rather education and ability to learn.

Just my 2 bits.

[Brian Leybourne]

Given how prevalent sorcerers are in Dark Sun (IIRC that's why the place is so screwed, because there are so many defilers killing all the flora and fauna as a side effect of casting their spells) I would drop sorcery from Priority A to at least B, and probably C.

Even in TROS, where they're as common as hens teeth, they're B. You have put them at A indicating that they're a one-in-a-million occurrance, which doesn't gel with my recolection of Dark Sun.

Just my 2c

Brian.

[Judd]

Is priority really a measure of how common a wizard is in the world or how much the character has to give up in order to become one?

[Ashren Va'Hale]

multiple arms would be mad dice on grappling and maneuvers woul be bad ass since no matter the proficiency you could do many of the two weapon maneuvers, imagine a kreen with a greatsword in two hands and a buckler, now he can do greatsword maneuvers and many of the cut and thrust as well

[Eamon Voss]

multiple arms would be mad dice on grappling and maneuvers woul be bad ass since no matter the proficiency you could do many of the two weapon maneuvers, imagine a kreen with a greatsword in two hands and a buckler, now he can do greatsword maneuvers and many of the cut and thrust as well

By the fixed dice of Gary Jackson, I never thought of that!  A thri-keen would be nigh-unstoppable!

[Dave Turner]

You have the ideas of MA and Wit swapped. Just take a look at the slow-learning, unchanging(single-minded) Fey in the book. They receive an MA penalty. MA has nothing to do with being slow-witted, rather education and ability to learn.

Just my 2 bits.

I see, Shadeling.  I assume you're referring to the Half-giant's flavor text accompanying his -2 MA?  I should change the text, since I think that half-giants match what you say above, which is a penalty to MA.  Would a change in flavor text do it for ya?  :)

Given how prevalent sorcerers are in Dark Sun (IIRC that's why the place is so screwed, because there are so many defilers killing all the flora and fauna as a side effect of casting their spells) I would drop sorcery from Priority A to at least B, and probably C.

Even in TROS, where they're as common as hens teeth, they're B. You have put them at A indicating that they're a one-in-a-million occurrance, which doesn't gel with my recolection of Dark Sun.

Just my 2c

Interesting, Brian.  My undertanding of how Athas became so ravaged was due mostly to the Cleansing Wars waged by the sorcerer-kings in ages past, which employed devastating magics.  In addition, maybe defilers were more prevalent in the past (hence the ecological collapse) but a combination of a "dwindling habitat" and a sorcerer-king pogrom has whittled down their numbers?  I seem to recall that the sorcerer-kings went out of their way to kill defilers that weren't on the payroll?

Is priority really a measure of how common a wizard is in the world or how much the character has to give up in order to become one?

I always thought that it was the latter?

multiple arms would be mad dice on grappling and maneuvers woul be bad ass since no matter the proficiency you could do many of the two weapon maneuvers, imagine a kreen with a greatsword in two hands and a buckler, now he can do greatsword maneuvers and many of the cut and thrust as well

I still have a reasonably academic understanding of how combat in actual play looks.  I can see how the the grappling bonus would work.

For the multiple maneuvers, would that mean that a thri-kreen could use cut-and-thrust or sword-and-shield maneuvers while wielding a two-handed weapon?  Would that be unbalanced in combat?

I also should have mentioned that I've got a few tweaks to the setting as well.  I've dropped priestly magic and psionics, for example.  I'm keeping the geography, history, flora, fauna, and cultures.  I still have to work up rules for non-metallic equipment, dehydration, some creature stats, and a few other things.  

Should I assume that with the exceptions posted above that the rest of the packages seem to be alright?  :)

[Shadeling]

You have the ideas of MA and Wit swapped. Just take a look at the slow-learning, unchanging(single-minded) Fey in the book. They receive an MA penalty. MA has nothing to do with being slow-witted, rather education and ability to learn.

Just my 2 bits.

I see, Shadeling.  I assume you're referring to the Half-giant's flavor text accompanying his -2 MA?  I should change the text, since I think that half-giants match what you say above, which is a penalty to MA.  Would a change in flavor text do it for ya?  :)

But you also have dwarves with a Wit penalty as well as Muls. Wit is mental reflex and sharpness. Again look at the Fey in the TROS book-they are single-minded and yet receive a bonus to Wit. MA is not intellect as I had said. Perhaps it is Dwarves, Muls and Half-Giants that should have penalty to MA. Look at the Gorem in the TROS book for a good example of a half-giant, since that is what they are in a sense. Gorem have lower EN, AG, WP, SOC, and MA just to give you an idea. Do what you want obviously...but not many nations or races in the TROS book have actual penalties to Wit.

Have fun with DarkSun!

[Dave Turner]

You have the ideas of MA and Wit swapped. Just take a look at the slow-learning, unchanging(single-minded) Fey in the book. They receive an MA penalty. MA has nothing to do with being slow-witted, rather education and ability to learn.

Just my 2 bits.

I see, Shadeling.  I assume you're referring to the Half-giant's flavor text accompanying his -2 MA?  I should change the text, since I think that half-giants match what you say above, which is a penalty to MA.  Would a change in flavor text do it for ya?  :)

But you also have dwarves with a Wit penalty as well as Muls. Wit is mental reflex and sharpness. Again look at the Fey in the TROS book-they are single-minded and yet receive a bonus to Wit. MA is not intellect as I had said. Perhaps it is Dwarves, Muls and Half-Giants that should have penalty to MA. Look at the Gorem in the TROS book for a good example of a half-giant, since that is what they are in a sense. Gorem have lower EN, AG, WP, SOC, and MA just to give you an idea. Do what you want obviously...but not many nations or races in the TROS book have actual penalties to Wit.

Have fun with DarkSun!

I see where you're headed now.

I suppose I was thinking that dwarves (and muls) should get a Wit penalty because of a racial preference for tradition and conservatism.  I see the dwarves as being consumed with structured life and industriousness.  This leads them to look to the routine of their lives and culture for immediate answers to sudden situations.  It's a byproduct of their focus maybe?  I see Wit in part as a talent for thinking outside the box.  Dwarves prefer to stay in the box as long as possible before venturing out, which seems like a Wit penalty to me.   They aren't given to spontaneous or impulsive thought.

But I'll take that idea of an MA penalty into consideration.  I'll be posting some other stuff regarding weapons, creatures, etc. soon.  :)

[Shadeling]

You have the ideas of MA and Wit swapped. Just take a look at the slow-learning, unchanging(single-minded) Fey in the book. They receive an MA penalty. MA has nothing to do with being slow-witted, rather education and ability to learn.

Just my 2 bits.

I see, Shadeling.  I assume you're referring to the Half-giant's flavor text accompanying his -2 MA?  I should change the text, since I think that half-giants match what you say above, which is a penalty to MA.  Would a change in flavor text do it for ya?  :)

But you also have dwarves with a Wit penalty as well as Muls. Wit is mental reflex and sharpness. Again look at the Fey in the TROS book-they are single-minded and yet receive a bonus to Wit. MA is not intellect as I had said. Perhaps it is Dwarves, Muls and Half-Giants that should have penalty to MA. Look at the Gorem in the TROS book for a good example of a half-giant, since that is what they are in a sense. Gorem have lower EN, AG, WP, SOC, and MA just to give you an idea. Do what you want obviously...but not many nations or races in the TROS book have actual penalties to Wit.

Have fun with DarkSun!

I see where you're headed now.

I suppose I was thinking that dwarves (and muls) should get a Wit penalty because of a racial preference for tradition and conservatism.  I see the dwarves as being consumed with structured life and industriousness.  This leads them to look to the routine of their lives and culture for immediate answers to sudden situations.  It's a byproduct of their focus maybe?  I see Wit in part as a talent for thinking outside the box.  Dwarves prefer to stay in the box as long as possible before venturing out, which seems like a Wit penalty to me.   They aren't given to spontaneous or impulsive thought.

But I'll take that idea of an MA penalty into consideration.  I'll be posting some other stuff regarding weapons, creatures, etc. soon.  :)

But like I was saying, most races in that regards-very focused or unchanging- tend to have MA penalties-like Fey (-2) and Dragons (avg MA of 1)in TROS. In TROS Wit isn't so much ability to think outside the box-actually that is more up to the player. Think of things Wit is used in-Countering someone trying to buy Initiative, some Ridicule rolls, and of course in figuring out your Reflex. It is also cunning and instinct in the case of animals-which usually cannot think outside the box so-to-speak, but have average-to-high Wit usually.

[Brian Leybourne]

Is priority really a measure of how common a wizard is in the world or how much the character has to give up in order to become one?

Nah it's the rarity. This has been discussed several times in the past.

YMMV of course, that was just my 2c.

Brian.

[Dave Turner]

Is priority really a measure of how common a wizard is in the world or how much the character has to give up in order to become one?

Nah it's the rarity. This has been discussed several times in the past.

YMMV of course, that was just my 2c.

Brian.

That's another way of looking at it.  I guess I'll have to decide how common I want them to be.  Since I'm stripping the setting of priestly magic and psionics, I might just want to stick with that low-magic notion and make defilers super rare, meaning Priority A.  That's more grist for the mill, I guess.  Thanks, Brian.  :)

[Shadeling]

Is priority really a measure of how common a wizard is in the world or how much the character has to give up in order to become one?

Nah it's the rarity. This has been discussed several times in the past.

YMMV of course, that was just my 2c.

Brian.

That's another way of looking at it.  I guess I'll have to decide how common I want them to be.  Since I'm stripping the setting of priestly magic and psionics, I might just want to stick with that low-magic notion and make defilers super rare, meaning Priority A.  That's more grist for the mill, I guess.  Thanks, Brian.  :)

It is a little unfair to the C and lower races to have to put A to be magical. Look at TROS for example where Sorcerers are super rare. Humans have to put B to use magic, and Siehe and Fey A (though Fey are always magical). Might want to think about that.

[Dave Turner]

It is a little unfair to the C and lower races to have to put A to be magical. Look at TROS for example where Sorcerers are super rare. Humans have to put B to use magic, and Siehe and Fey A (though Fey are always magical). Might want to think about that.

So maybe switch Sorcerer to Priority B?  That would leave Thri-Kreen and Half-giants at Priority A.  I've restricted half-giants from being sorcerers, so that would mean that, like the Fey, I would have to have a rule that Priority A covers the mega-rare sorcerous thri-kreen?

I've already decided that if someone chooses Priority A, they are a sorcerer and can choose any race they want in addition (it's at the bottom of the original post).  Wait, I think I see what's wrong.  Why would I choose human (from a min-maxing point of view) if I could choose thri-kreen?  Be a sorcerer and a kick-ass race at the same time?  If I drop the Priority to B, it makes the thri-kreen choice a bit more vital?  

I think I'll bump humans up to Priority C and make sorcery a Priority B choice.  But I don't want to make the core TROS assumption that all Priority A races are sorcerous, but I want to allow for thri-kreen sorcerers.  How do I resolve this?

[Ron Edwards]

No psionics and no priests??

I'm floored. My interest in this thread just evaporated, man. Sorry. I don't see "Dark Sun" in anything without psionics and pyramid-priests.

Best,
Ron

editing this in moments later: Well, that was kind of harsh. Let me put it differently: as a self-described "old school Dark Sun fan," why are you removing the psionics and priests?