Clairvoyance, Range Variable and CTN

[Spartan]

So here I am just doing up a simple clairvoyance spell, and in calculating the CTN I'm unsure how to apply the range.  Say the spell allows the caster to see events just as described in the Clairvoyance effect of the Vision Vagary... would once calculate the range as 0 (the spell is really only affecting the caster), or as 3 (Unlimited, since the caster can see up to a mile away)?

Also, two more quick questions:  Skills have a minimum TN of 2, but can a spell have a CTN of 1 (after formalization and gestures/dialogue check)?

This CTN reduction also affects the amount of dice required to maintain a spell, yes?  So if you reduce the CTN and/or have a lot of casting successes, you might not need any dice to maintain a spell, right?

-Mark

[Shadeling]

1) I would say range is 0...Vision already says how far you can see (range would come into play with Telepathy).

2) Yes Spells can have a CTN of 1-look at the Mana I spell-CTN 1.

3) CTN reduction from Formalization reduces CTN for all negative aspects of a spell-CTN to age, CTN to cast, and time to cast. The spell however maintains the same ammount of power. Is this a Spell of One? Otherwise throw that Summoning in there and have a nice long lasting Clairvoyance spell. But to full answer that question, I believe it would be yes. Formalization is quite cool.

[Brian Leybourne]

1) I would say range is 0...Vision already says how far you can see (range would come into play with Telepathy).

Have to agree,, you've already "paid" by having Vision 3 in there. Adding a range component would be double-dipping your costs.

2) Yes Spells can have a CTN of 1-look at the Mana I spell-CTN 1.

3) CTN reduction from Formalization reduces CTN for all negative aspects of a spell-CTN to age, CTN to cast, and time to cast. The spell however maintains the same ammount of power. Is this a Spell of One? Otherwise throw that Summoning in there and have a nice long lasting Clairvoyance spell. But to full answer that question, I believe it would be yes. Formalization is quite cool.

It gets better than that. Unless I've missed it, there's nothing in book 6 to suggest that a spell has a minimum CTN of 1, which means that you can formulize down to zero... Imagine formlizing MANA II, making it an instantaneous way to recover Draw*2 SP dice at the cost of 2 months aging (2 months auto aging generated by the spell). Or taking another spell with CTN 2 and formulizing that.

Hmm.. lets see. T0 (caster), R0 (caster), V0 (incorporal), D0 (instantaneous), L0 (Vision 2, -2 for formulization).

Spell is cast instantly and with no SP cost or aging, grants the caster 100X magnification and allows him to see up to a year into the past or future. Can be maintained permanently by removing (0-0=0) dice from his SP, until he next sleeps or falls unconscious. :-)

(It probably says CTN minimum 1 somewhere, but damned if I can find it in either edition of the book)

Brian.

[Spartan]

(It probably says CTN minimum 1 somewhere, but damned if I can find it in either edition of the book)

It says that the minimum CTN is 1 (pg 111 revised edition), but that's before Formalization/Gestures/Dialogue modifiers.  So it seems that you can have a CTN of 1 or 0!  

E.g.:

Clairvoyance

Spell of One

CTN 1

T) 0 R) 0 V) 2 D) 0 L) 1  =  3

minus 2 for Formalization

Vagaries: Vision 1

Effects: Clairvoyance 1

Duration: Instantaneous

Description: Allows the caster to see any area within one mile at 10x magnification if desired.

Add to this using the benefits of dialogue and gestures, and you have a CTN of -1 (well, 0 really).  Instantaneous Clairvoyance, costing no dice to cast or maintain.  Spiffy! :D

-Mark

[Brian Leybourne]

Uhh.. did you read my example? :-)

And for the record, you have V2 in your spell.. that's not required for purely mind based effects (no volume), so your spell is actually CTN-1 (defualts to zero). Add 1 to the L and you get... my spell :-)

Brian.

[Spartan]

Uhh.. did you read my example? :-)

[pedantic]Yup!  However, yours was clairvoyance in the "see the future" sense.  Mine was clairvoyance as in "seeing stuff far away". ;)[/pedantic]

And for the record, you have V2 in your spell.. that's not required for purely mind based effects (no volume), so your spell is actually CTN-1 (defualts to zero).

Right you are. :)

Add 1 to the L and you get... my spell :-)

And a mighty fine spell it is, too! :)

As an aside, getting the CTNs down to 1 or 0 explains how the Nine or the Fey can be casting for so many years and not be dead of old age.  This game just keeps getting more fascinating by the day.  Very cool. :D

-Mark