What is the next great evolution in RPG design?

[hix]

Hi Ron.

Yeah, your thoughts on "writing a supplement" echo my overnight conclusions. I'm still not sure if it constitutes 'drift' or a 'heartbreaker' but I think in evolutionary theory the term is 'incrementalism'.

Write a supplement (that has an original take, not just plagiarism) detailing these ideas, see if it becomes popular. If it does, chances are it becomes part of the canon - and gets incorporated into the next official edition of D&D. And the game changes once again from its original incarnation in the early/mid 70s.

Enough of these creeping changes and I suppose you have a new game. Which is raising a lot of questions about what a game actually is that my brain will have to deal with at some point.

Paul Czege wrote:
. . . you'd need to do more than just change the criteria for earning experience. That's only half of the reward system. You'd need to adjust the nature of the payoff for leveling up as well.

Thanks Paul. You're absolutely right. I'll think about that and see if anything sticks.

In the meantime: how 'bout games that are solely designed to elicit specific moods like Dread, Joy, Bloodlust, etc. Personally, I'd enjoy it the more upbeat the emotion was. Recreational, mood-altering games as an alternative to recreational, mood-altering drugs.

Steve.

[Kester Pelagius]

Greetings Ron,

If I'm not mistaken, those features are already implemented in many games, ranging from The Window, Universalis, and as far as can be told so far, Scattershot (in design). They are also implemented to lesser degree in more focused games such as Champions or Sorcerer. The only stricture that's not met is in hix's call for them to be found in D&D, which to my way of thinking is simply a matter of providing D20-based supplements that introduce them.

I dunno, is D20 really even D&D?

Guess that will depend on what the individual reading this thinks really makes D&D D&D.

Granted the last time I played D&D was back when 2nd ED was the hottest thing since melted wax, and then I pretty much just adapted stuff for use with 1st ED.  (I still remember my basic reaction:  "Half a dozen PHBs and two DMGs, and I'm going to invest in a not that new system whose rules I could glean from Dragon, UA, or the survival guides?")  Not that that lasted very long since most of my players moved on to other game systems, but where xD&D is concerned I think that to do what Hix wants you'd literally have to gut the character creation system as it exists.

Which beggars the question:  How much can you change D&D and still consider it D&D?

I think the OGL and D20 thing was a real astute marketing ploy, to say nothing of a very cunning patch to the inability to actually copyright the bulk of the basic framework of the underlying game mechanics.  And it did work!  Now rather that publish a 'clone' system people just publish under one those banners.

But if you were to ask me what made Dungeon & Dragons dungeons and dragons I doubt if I would say "the D20 resolution mechanic".  It's really more of a feel, a flavor, or rather the style of gaming that is portrayed.
To me that derives mostly from the way the level progression works and how alignment is set-up.  The resolution mechanic is really secondary, but that's just me.

Still, it's a good point.  There are games out there that meet some of Hix's criteria.  Maybe those here who are more knowledgable could compile a list for those interested?

It would certainly help those who wanted ideas about how to develope similar systems.


Kind Regards,

Kester Pelagius

[kaiza]

RPGs have been evolving the last 3 decades. From simple stats hack and slash dungeon raiders to epic worlds and dimensions. From many companies to a few. A free market, now dominated by the megacorp dominating Hasbro owned ,Wizards of the Coast vs Wizkids toy/model line.

Thus making more independant RPGs pop all the time. Gamers waying of saying their are other RPGs besides D20.

In the future I think RPGs will become a hybrid of online gaming mixed with RPG traditional themes. The process is already in motion. I like the traditional dice kind more myself than the electric stuff. Table top rpgs give a person more freedom. Unfortunatly the average person is farely lazy and would rather have somebody create a RPG world for them, than have to design one themself. Plus people are forgetting how to use their imagination and let other people dream stuff for them.

Traditional Rpgs will not survive business wise, if Hasbro keeps dominating the market as it is. Game shops can not afford the high prices they keep charging forever.

Independant RPGs are the ones who hold the future of this kind of Hobby. Where it goes from here depends on us gamers as a whole. I see collectively players are looking for something new and different. Game designs keep coming out that trying to put a change to old mold of RPGs of the past.

As a designer myself I think we need more story driven worlds with backgrounds interesting enough that you want to explore. Not have to force yourself to explore just to promote some sort of action or avoid bordem. There to many generic rules rpgs and limited setting games out there.

My challenge to the future is to make and have RPGs that have backgrounds so interesting they evolve with time. You keep your interest because you come to love that world too, not just your character.

Sincerely,
Kaiza The Crimson Wolf

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Kaiza,

We have several such game-worlds already. Are you familiar with Glorantha?

Best,
Ron

[kaiza]

No. I have not heard of that one. I never said there are not a few cool rpg worlds out there. There just needs to be more made in the future.

Kaiza The Crimson Wolf
"Always good to be in the hunt."