My Ultimate RPG: Lost Realms

[Realmforger]

I'm creating a role-playing game called Lost Realms. The normal game takes place in a medival fantasy setting, but I might make several different settings.

You can begin as one of the Basic Classes: Warrior, Ranger, Knight, Rogue, Cleric, Paladin, Wizard, or Warlock. As you gain experience, you can build ranks in one of the 14 Advanced Classes: Beserker, Defender, Druid, Crusaider, Assassin, Bishop, Archmage, Necromancer, Enchanter, Beastmaster, Herbalist, Dragonrider, Shadowhunter, or Summoner. You can multiclass too (a maximum of 3 Basic Classes), but if you do, you'll advance more slowly in all the classes (you can pick one Primary Class, which you advance most quickly in).

Abilities are like Skills in Dungeons and Dragons, but the Ability system works a little different. You can aquire individual Abilities, or pick a category to advance more quickly. There are also many Tecniques that you can aquire, which have more specified advantages.

Characters have something called a Power Guage, which increases when you take or inflict damage. You can pick a Power Attack, which you can use when your Power Guage reaches its limit, and you can improve it as you level up. You can spend Power Points to start a Power Chain (a chain of Power Attacks), which, if successful, can end in a full Power Attack.

Your character has four Character Scores: Strength (STR), Endurance (END), Agility (AGI), and Magic (MAG). I'll also probably make seperate Ability Ratings, which rate your skill in various Abilities and Tecniques.

The combat system basically works like this: Your weapon rolls a certain die or dice to determine its damage. There's no armor class in this, no misses and hits. When you attack, you always hit (unless the character dodges it, which I'll describe later).

The weapon also has a certain number of Cutting Damage, which ignores the opposing armor (If your attack is lower than the opponent's armor, the CD (Cutting Damage) still applies, if your damage is reduced by the opposing armor, it can't go below your CD). You add your Attack Score (or Base Attack, I havn't decided what to call it yet) to the roll, and subtract the result from your opponent's armor. Cut the CD in half, and subtract it as damage from the opponent's armor (you can repair armor with the Repair Tecnique). Subtract the result from the opponent's HP (Health Points). If the attack is lower than the opponent's Dodge, the enemy evades all damage (if you dodge an attack there's no penalty, like you can't act in the next round or something, because I assume you'd just duck, or leap a few feet to the side).

You can fight in Defense Position, where you can't act but your Base Defence is doubled. If you have a shield, you can Defend. When defending, you can only move forward at half your speed, and you can't attack, but all attacks against have a 50% chance to fail, and if they hit they only do half damage.

You can also fight from the back lines, where enemies can only hit you with ranged attacks, but the same goes for you. You also have certain other disadvantages to fighting in the back lines.

There's a lot more to combat than all this, but I won't get into it now.

Lost Realms takes place in a world recovering from the harsh wounds of war. Long ago, the evil wizard Gerral summoned the Dark Legions from their abyssal prison, and waged a harsh war upon the earth. The realms surrounding Bravehelm were destroyed, but the bickering races of the land were eventually able to forget their fueds and unite to defeat the foes. Since then the lands of Bravehelm have recovered beautifully, and the races have come together once more, but the mystery still remains of the lands beyond the Lost Sea, the lands that were thought to be destroyed....The mysteries of the Lost Realms are waiting to be discovered!

The main concept of LR (Lost Realms, obviously) is adventure. There's tons of combat and all, but the main goal is to have fun and uncover the secrets of the Lost Realms.

I know I have a pretty good outline, but I want to know what you all think of LR, and I'm looking for some good ideas or suggestions. Any opinions you could give me would be really appreciated!

- RF

[Thomas Tamblyn]

Hello and welcome to the forge. (always wanted to say that)

Hmm, looking at the outline you've posted, the game seems very D&Dlike with basic classes, prestige classes, skills and feats (or analogues).

That may not be right, but its the impression I get from reading your summary.  Yo urefer to D&D in your post so I assume you've played it, so tell us what you are doing differently.  Obviously your game isn't just D&D otherwise why would it be "your game", so highlight the features that set it apart.

Reading the details, I wonder if Cutting damage and keeping track of armour damage is a little comploicated?  Perhaps just say that your armour has a chance of breaking whenever you suffer a critical hit or something along thoe lines?  I know that doesn't allow for nicks and scratches to build up over time but some details aren't worth keeping track of because of the time it takes to keep track of them.

I notice there is no attribute for social or mental tasks.  Do you see these being resolved through roleplaying perhaps?  What would a character roll to (say) spot a small but important detail, or hear an oncoming ambush?  If the answer is to roll ability xx (as I have a hunch it might be) why bother with the character scores at all?  Why not define a character solely in terms of abilities and make str, end, agi and mag abilities too?

What I do like is the idea of the power attack - a special move unique to the character.  I can see this adding a lot of character - something often lacking in combat-centred games (which yours seems to be).  My best recommendation is to make sure there's lots of options to build an interesting attack.

Maybe take a look at a copy of "Big Eyes Small Mouth" if you can, it's weapon attack ability is a very good example of how to create a wide variety of different special attacks. - short version, pick advantages and disadvantages for the attack from a list.  Each disadvantage increases the attack's damage.  Each advantage decreases it.

[Realmforger]

In Dungeons and Dragons, you pick a race and a class, and pick your ability scores, and those make effect what you do with bonuses or penalties. Almost every non-combat related challenge you encounter will require simple skill checks, you roll a d20, add a modifier, and if the outcome beats a certain number, your attempt is succesful. In combat, you roll a d20 for your attack, if you beat the opposing armor class, you hit and you roll damage. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this, and I know there's a whole lot more to it, but I'm trying to do something different.

Lost Realms focuses on fun and variety, and contrary to what I may have wrote, LR aims to incorperate role-playing as a primary factor, and give not only the role-playing factors, but the entire game a more "3d" feel. In dungeons and dragons, when you make a diplomacy check what you're actually trying to accomplish makes a small difference.

For example, in a D&D game, a barbarian is trying to reason with a goblin. The barbarian classicly gets some sort of penalty due to his poor intellegence. The barbarian would probably fail.

In my game, if a barbarian were saying to a goblin what a barbarian would typically say, he would also probably fail. But in Lost Realms, the system doesn't limit you to what "a barbarian would typically say", it allows you to put on the mask of a barbarian, and whatever you can think up, do what you think would work for a barbarian. The creatures around you wouldn't judge you by what you said, but a barbarian saying what you said.

Also, D&D's combat system lacks variety. You basically roll for your attack, then roll the damage. Spellcasters can use magic, and there are many different feats and such that will affect your fighting ability, but it basically narrows down to the same thing, roll for attack, then damage. If it were up to me, I'd make it a bit more complicated. (Note: I've never played advanced D&D, so my comments only go for third edition).

In Lost Realms, you have a basic attack action, but there are also tons of special actions you can take, and instead of feats basically narrowing down to the attack, they allow you special abilities and different attacks and special moves.

After all this talk, I think it's time for an example:

A party of a Level 1 Ranger, Warrior, and a Wizard is facing off against a band of three Hobgoblins. Derwin the Ranger draws his bow, and fires three silver arrows using his Multi-Arrows Ability. He then switches to Defence Positon, and ends his turn. Thrasher the Warrior has many combat Tecniques. He decides to use the Axewhirl ability to throw his axe like a boomerang (he can only use Axewhirl from the back lines). Veldryn the Wizard casts Defensive Bubble over his allies, providing a + 6 defensive bonusfor five turns. (Note: Spellcasters have a certain amount of MP, based on their magic score. Once they run out of MP, spells will reduce their Health Points).

Combat may not always be this eventful, but this is a smart opening round against a group of tough enemies. As you can see, this is very different than a typical D&D battle.

Quote: Reading the details, I wonder if Cutting damage and keeping track of armour damage is a little comploicated? Perhaps just say that your armour has a chance of breaking whenever you suffer a critical hit or something along thoe lines? I know that doesn't allow for nicks and scratches to build up over time but some details aren't worth keeping track of because of the time it takes to keep track of them. (I don't know how to do quotes right.)

I'll think about it. I think I'll keep Cutting Damage, but use something like your suggestion for armor damage.

Quote: (1) I notice there is no attribute for social or mental tasks. Do you see these being resolved through roleplaying perhaps? (2) What would a character roll to (say) spot a small but important detail, or hear an oncoming ambush? If the answer is to roll ability xx (as I have a hunch it might be) why bother with the character scores at all? (3) Why not define a character solely in terms of abilities and make str, end, agi and mag abilities too?

To answer your first question (1) As I mentioned above, I'm going to make Ability Ratings specifically for Abilities and mental tasks. (2) Abilities would simply decide that. (3) STR, END, AGI, and MAG only determine combat abilities, so I'll maybe call them Combat Scores or something.

I take many ideas and inspirations from a popular role-playing game, but the approach is very different. I seek to amplify the role-playing aspects of combat-based RPGs, and add fun and variety to add a three-demensional feel to it.

[Christoffer Lernö]

Hi, what are your experiences with other rpgs apart from D&D? It's easy to end up with a patched up D&D.

[Clinton R. Nixon]

Realmforger,

I highly suggest taking a look at The Burning Wheel, which has a lot of characteristics I think you might like.

[Thomas Tamblyn]

For example, in a D&D game, a barbarian is trying to reason with a goblin. The barbarian classicly gets some sort of penalty due to his poor intellegence. The barbarian would probably fail.

In my game, if a barbarian were saying to a goblin what a barbarian would typically say, he would also probably fail. But in Lost Realms, the system doesn't limit you to what "a barbarian would typically say", it allows you to put on the mask of a barbarian, and whatever you can think up, do what you think would work for a barbarian. The creatures around you wouldn't judge you by what you said, but a barbarian saying what you said.

I'm not sure what you mean here.  Do you mean that a social encounter like this would be resolved entirely thorugh roleplaying?  Doesn't that invalidate the use of an intelligence stat to a certain extent if you can rely on the player's ability rather than the character's?

A good example of what I mean is a scenario that used to come up a lot in D&D games.  The player knows how to make gunpowder, so he just makes the character do it.  There's nothing in the rules to stop him, but its blatantly stupid that a CHARACTER that doesn't know how to make gunpowder can simply because the player does.  Equally, your barbarian might not know how to be diplomatic, but if the player does and is free to control the barbarian in that way, what possible point is there to having a diplomacy skill for your character?

Incidentaly, I think you're misrepresenting D&D here.  The roll would not only be modified by the Barbarian's charisma modifier (as wll as any skill bonus) but also by circumstance, including any particularly good points the player comes up with.  So a low-charisma character would be less convincing than a high charisma-character, but either character can appeal to the goblin's vanity through roleplaying to get him to cooperate (probably worth a +2 mod).  The charisma/skill modifiers are a base for the character, modified by the specifics of the action.

D&D actually allows a lot more flexibility in action than a lot of people think - probably because the information on it is in the Dungeon Master's Book rather than the Player's Guide.

[ethan_greer]

My suggestion is to read these two articles:

Fantasy Heartbreakers

More Fantasy Heartbreakers

You also might want to check out this thread.

[Ben Morgan]

I'll say I'm intrigued by the reversal of the D&D "roll Attack vs. AC" paradigm. This makes sense to me, as the way I see it, in melee combat, if an attack misses, it's because the other person got out of the way more than a failure on the part of the attacker. So putting the emphasis on the dodging/parrying/blocking of an attack rather than the attack itself seems to be a good move.

Putting this together with FF style Limit Break attacks is an interesting concept as well.

-- Ben

[Valamir]

One mechanical suggestion.  I'd rename Cutting Damage into Bashing Damage.  If as you describe this is the minimum damage that the weapon is going to do regardless of armor...it will be because of the physical impact of the blow.  

Armor is VERY effective at stopping cuts.  But the force behind those cuts is another matter.  A good piece of armor can prevent a two handed sword swung at full strength from cutting you...but even if it does, you still got hit with an 8-12 lb piece of metal.

Second suggestion...there's no such thing as an "Ultimate" RPG.

[Thomas Tamblyn]

Perhaps just call it "Armour piercing damage", after all bullets and arrows tend to be useful against armour but don't by any stretch of the imagination cause crushing damage.

[Valamir]

Perhaps just call it "Armour piercing damage", after all bullets and arrows tend to be useful against armour but don't by any stretch of the imagination cause crushing damage.

Good point, but it would probably be better to have two seperate types of damage in that case, as the minimum bashing damage may still cause knockdown effects, where the piercing damage obviously woudn't.  Further the sword is unlikely to actuall pierce the armor the way a powerful arrow would.

In any case, "cutting damage" is just a poor choice of terms.

[Realmforger]

I'm really sorry I let the posts build up. I'll answer each of your comments.

First I'll answer Thomas' question.

(Quote) I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean that a social encounter like this would be resolved entirely thorugh roleplaying? Doesn't that invalidate the use of an intelligence stat to a certain extent if you can rely on the player's ability rather than the character's?

No. The creatures would judge a barbarian differently than say, a respected knight. Also, I wasn't thinking straight when I said intellegence. I meant charisma. The barbarian would get a CHARISMA penalty on those rolls, but they wouldn't be limited to what a barbarian would say. I know that isn't very realistic but I like the idea. The Diplomacy ability category contains these abilities: Negotiate, inquire, convince, sedate, trick, bully, taunt and intimidate. A barbarian could try to convince a respected wizard that he's walking into a trap, but he would be more likely to believe another wizard or a knight.

(Quote) A good example of what I mean is a scenario that used to come up a lot in D&D games. The player knows how to make gunpowder, so he just makes the character do it. There's nothing in the rules to stop him, but its blatantly stupid that a CHARACTER that doesn't know how to make gunpowder can simply because the player does. Equally, your barbarian might not know how to be diplomatic, but if the player does and is free to control the barbarian in that way, what possible point is there to having a diplomacy skill for your character?

First, I was only reffering to role-playing aspects when I said a barbarian can say whatever he likes. Second, a barbarian only has access to a few of the diplomatic abilities at first, which does limit a barbarian's role-playing ability, in fact that's one of the reasons I have categories is to limit abilities.

The only way to advance in most abilities is to improve their relative attribute. If a barbarian improves his charisma score, he would become better at diplomacy. Also, as he improves more sections of diplomacy will be open to him.

Now I'll answer the question from Christoffer.

I don't have much experience away from D&D, but I'm planning to discover a lot more of the role-playing world.

To answer Ethan, I read the first two articles, and I've learned from them. However, I still think that my RPG, although it shares a lot of the same concepts as D&D, I think it has so many fresh new rules and such a different approach, I think it overrules most of the similarities.

Those games were somewhat trying to fix D&D, and as said at the end of Ron's second article, the defenition of a Heartbreaker is a game that tries to improve where D&D failed. He said that Heartbreakers are not only doomed economically, but they are trapped. The farther they grow apart from D&D, the further they stray from their goal, to fix D&D.

I have no desire to "fix D&D". The further I go from it, the better. Still, I think if I did publish it, it wouldn't make it nearly as far as all those did. However, I don't plan to sell Lost Realms. I've had lots of ideas about my own RPGs, and I'm trying to get them out.

I'm also not a wannabe designer. I'm not going to "flake out" on this, and it's not just a "neat thing", as the first sticky note says I shouldn't. I'm serious about creating this, but I don't want to sell it for money. I'll continue to think up ideas and build on this, and I might try to publish it if it grows into something really original, but for now I think I'll just give it away for free.

The second article Ethan suggested, "More Fantasy Heartbreakers" suggests that all new members of The Forge that have experience with D&D should create a Heartbreaker as their first project. I guess I can think of this as a more serious Heartbreaker. I'm getting out all my D&D frustrations, but in the process I'm trying to build off of them to create at least a semi-original game.

To answer Valamir and Thomas:

You're right. Most armor is able to deflect the cutting force of a weapon, but the blow will still damage the warrior beneath the armor. I will have two values: Bashing Damage and Piercing Damage.

Thanks a lot for the idea. I just wanted to find a way draw a line between an axe or a mace (blunt, crushing weapons) and a sword or a spear (swift, piercing weapons), other than D&D's method. I'll still have to think about that, but I'll use seperate values for bows and melee weapons.

Thanks a lot for all your help!

[ethan_greer]

I'm also not a wannabe designer. I'm not going to "flake out" on this, and it's not just a "neat thing", as the first sticky note says I shouldn't. I'm serious about creating this, but I don't want to sell it for money. I'll continue to think up ideas and build on this, and I might try to publish it if it grows into something really original, but for now I think I'll just give it away for free.

Just a minor point, but even just throwing out an HTML file on Geocities or some such free hosting service counts as publishing. :)

The second article Ethan suggested, "More Fantasy Heartbreakers" suggests that all new members of The Forge that have experience with D&D should create a Heartbreaker as their first project. I guess I can think of this as a more serious Heartbreaker. I'm getting out all my D&D frustrations, but in the process I'm trying to build off of them to create at least a semi-original game.

My advice would be to go ahead and get those frustrations off your chest.  Just don't be afraid to axe something if you recognize it to be simply a reaction to something that irritated you about D&D.  The concept of subtractive sculpture works well.  Instead of lumping clumps of clay onto the thing, don't be afraid to take a hammer and chisel and chip away things that drag your design down.