Forum RPG Question, Maybe Advice

[Dr. Velocity]

I'm running a simple playtest session forum-based RPG for a 'clan' of online gamers, all of whom enjoy writing, etc. I have about 4 or so - they each have their own entire threads of nothing but their own original (though derivitive) fantasy stories, and each put a LOT into them, and also they each do normal freeform role-playing on their own in the forums I setup, so there's lots of fireballs killing 40 orcs at once and staves of power deflecting other players' attacks, etc - very munchkin - or so I thought.

Anyway, I started a forum based session, explaining I would be the narrator, if anyone was interested, and would be using a VERY loose approximation of a game system (sort of my best guess at the general idea of the Pool), but they wouldnt need to know any of the mechanics, I would take care of stats, etc. so they could just enjoy writing and role-playing. Fine so far. I then asked them to write a brief description of their characters, 200 words or less, hitting high points they consider important, positively or negatively, and to their credit, most even gave themselves some minor flaws, of their own volition, even though none of them have actually PLAYED a normal role-playing game before.

Here is my problem - and I guess I'm not really asking for advice, but more what similiar things have happened to you, and what you wound up doing... I told them this would be a contemporary real-world based playtest game, with normal technology, etc. I explained to them this was REAL world-based, *I* would be the narrator, they were free to elaborate on things or their own stories or *minor* actions or conversations, etc, but that I would help 'direct' the game and they could think of themselves as movie characters if that helped - no invincibility, no lasers, no heat beams, no magic spells, etc - I urged reason and reality, and gave them the setting - a scenic little lodge up in the mountains (nation non-specific), where they were all VACATIONING - they could choose to know each other or not. So I finally start to get the characters roll in...

One more or less unspectacular character who is moderately skilled with a bow and staff and who has dubious luck - his description was basically just character development, rather than actual skills, so there, I was pleased.

The next was a little more trait-centered and slightly out of whack, as this guy put himself forward as having a horse (which I hadn't anticipated, but which made sense in the setting and could be interesting, so I okayed it), and also a staff (he's a big Gandalf fan) and an odd 'healing ability', though he didn't elaborate on it. Otherwise again, unremarkable, no super strength or speed, etc.

Another one was a farmer, fairly straightforward, pickup truck, etc. Ok. Basically by this time I was wishing for MORE 'heroic' characters.

Lastly, and I knew it was bound to happen, I got the Munchkin Combat Monster From Hell. Even though I very specifically explained the 200 word 'story description' for the characters, I instead got what look like rpg or console game stats like:

Name: Kahless (*groan, named after a Klingon, egad*)
Occupation: Navy SEAL
Armament: 25 grenades, fast attack vehicle (with cargo bay), mortar cannon, HEAT rounds, yadda yadda assault rifle, combat knife, C-4...

Armor: Heavy Duty Full combat Kevlar battle armor, shield and helmet...

And so forth. Its like the whole 'VACATION' aspect just went right over his head. Although I didnt want to do any sort of player-to-player interaction in the forums, to help keep the game running 'in play mode', I called him on the ridiculousness of driving around on the streets in a military combat vehicle loaded with full combat ready weapons and explosives and armor ... for VACATION... he genuinely and without hesitation answered 'well of COURSE I take all these things with me, vacation or anywhere else - I'm a SEAL!'.

I almost poked my own eyes out. Since then, we've agreed to disagree on some things and he's relented *somewhat*, and I've given somewhat, letting him have some things, meanwhile developing a sub-branch which inhibits combustion, making firearms, some electricity, vehicles, etc. useless. Naturally this has caused a serious gripe from him, as its pretty obvious he's relying specifically on his hi-tech weaponry and not his own ability, and perhaps its either obvious, or his suspicious mind makes it seem that way, that his technological edge is being taken from him to keep him from 'ruining' the game. He has, at every turn, attempted to 'outtrivia' me so he would still be an unstoppable badass, noting his ammunition was sealed casing something or other, which shouldn't be affected by this weird atmospheric inhibitor, then noted that his backup rifle was some sort of weird air rifle thing that shoots the super-lethal hydrogen dioxin darts, standard issue Navy SEAL stuff, or so he says.

Well, looking in Google for that phrase, there are NO exact matches, though enough related hits to know he knows *something* about what he's talking about - and that possibly he has more in-depth knowledge on some of these things than Google itself does. My problem is, he either IS a SEAL (which I don't think he is, since most of the people in this game are 18 or younger) or is incredibly obsessed with that; either way, its hard to argue against a lot of his stuff (though the poison dart thing I question, as well as running around on civilian roads with a FAV and mortars and grenades) because he knows far more about it than I do about it, and I don't WANT to have to 'counter' his admittedly very creative attempts at overcoming his situation - I don't want it to be about HIM or ME; to do much more will make it really seem like I'm picking on him, and I don't want it to be a contest - but even the other players are exasperated at his over-the-top ideas, which they know detract from the actual game.

So there is basically a 'monster in the woods' - naturally, Kahless wants to shoot it and throw grenades at it or run it down, the other players wander around and try to spot the thing and discuss what to do.

The inhibitor thing kicks in and combustion doesn't work. He wants to use his sealed ammunition and/or air rifle with poison darts. Quandry - I can allow both to work, but I can't let him kill the thing or thats the end of the game and he singlehandedly wins it - if I say even the sealed case ammo sputters, or the creature takes little damage, and the air rifle doesnt' work or the poison doesn't do anything, he'll cry fowl because I thought his character was 'too good'. For a time he seemed to mellow and accept some limiting on his armaments, then seems to have switched back and now, fearing his ranged weapons and explosives are useless, his most dominant, primal advice and wish is for '"everyone to execute a tactical withdrawl out of this non-combustion area and bombar the thing from afar, since we're powerless as it is".

I won't just 'kick' him for being moderately uncooperative, as he IS posting and writing, coming up with some good ideas, plus there are only like 6 people in our group total and only about half of them, including him, are playing, and we're all part of the 'clan' group, so it would be very uncomfortable to ban him from posting in that part of our forums.

I just don't know how you can get THROUGH to people like this. I KNOW he has watched horror movies, with plenty of people wearing nothing but a nightshirt and carrying a flashlight, fight off the ancient undying evil, and yet, if his fully automatic dragonbreath rounds are duds, he basically throws up his hands and declares the whole thing a loss. I do NOT know how to proceed with the rest of the game, which the *other* players are eager to participate in, without either necessarily having him killed (since he's likely to do something suicidal and rely on an advantage he doesn't actually have and there won't be any good reason NOT to kill him), or he will simply quit from boredom or feeling singled out unjustifiably. I don't know the guy, really at all, except for a few posts, but I want him to be able to play and have fun and post - but my idea of the narrated game and his want for the military badass are SOOOOOO different - can this game be salvaged?

[James Holloway]

I don't know the guy, really at all, except for a few posts, but I want him to be able to play and have fun and post - but my idea of the narrated game and his want for the military badass are SOOOOOO different - can this game be salvaged?

In a word: no. At least in my experience.

Debating the details of the character (though, in general, military personnel are not allowed to take military vehicles with them on vacation, you know?) was probably a mistake in the first place. It doesn't matter whether the character "could exist" in "the real world." The question is whether you and the other players (let's not forget them) all think that Kahless the Klingon Navy Seal Grenade Guy is an appropriate character for the game. I would guess not, from your post.

But the way to handle that (again, based on my experience) is to talk to the player about it before the game starts or to suggest that maybe the player would be happier playing in some other game rather than trying to come up with in-game reasons why his stuff doesn't work.

It sounds like you're really strongly committed to the idea of this game, and that maybe the players aren't. Maybe the solution is a different group of players?

[Garbanzo]

Dr. V-

It seems like things have progressed to a point where the differences are irreconcilable.  On the one hand is Seal-boy, on the other hand are the other characters and your setting.

The reason that mismatches like this are to be avoided is that the game becomes less fun.
Sounds to me like it's time for some natural consequences.  Treat the player as you'd treat the others, let his mighty weaponry finish the adventure in 11 minutes, and then say, "OK.  What did everyone think of that?"

Take this first adventure as a bit of an experiment (which it was, right?).  Everyone's feeling out how it goes, getting a handle on things.
Either (1) Consensus will be that playing through things long-style would've been fun, and therefore the Seal short-circuited the game for folks, or else (2) Damn!  Next time I want a Seal, too!

But both give a better grounding for the next run.
--And treating the whole thing as an experiment means that you don't have the answers, but are looking for some.  Having gotten a few, the next time will be better.  This might keep the other folks engaged more than "Uh, that sucked, but I know next time'll be better."

-Matt

[clehrich]

One big question here is whether the other people feel, as you do, that the hyper-weaponed SEAL is annoying.  Not whether he's possible -- whether he's annoying.  Here's a test I can imagine; it needs a lot of refinement, but hey.

WARNING: This is something I, for one, would never encourage in any normal situation.  You're going to roast the guy over a slow fire, and see whether he comes out better or out of the game, and also see whether the other players would prefer him alive or dead.  I have a feeling that the answer is going to be "dead."  

You might consider setting up by contacting the very best of the other players, the one who seems most mature and reflective.  Tell him that the point of this exercise is to find out whether this guy is really a weenie or whether he can be molded into a fun player with the rest of the group.  Explain that if the guy really tries, everyone should be encouraging, and you expect this player to help make it happen; that is, discourage other people from gloating when the guy's in a bind, and set the example by saying things like, "Um, couldn't you waste that guy by stealth and unarmed combat?" and so forth.

Okay, so the SEAL has about 1000 pounds of super-weapons, and a special tank thing to tote it around with.  Now you've said that you're taking care of the stats, so let that include ammo.  Encourage the guy to go do a recon -- no truck, no excess weight, just what he can reasonably carry -- and find out what's on the list.  Cut it brutally until it's sane; say, an M16, a couple grenades, a few clips, a knife, a helmet, maybe the armor.  While he's out reconning, you jump him with some kind of way-powerful ambush, give him a big fight scene all to himself (using up lots and lots of ammo), but have him captured.  Yes, this is a railroad, but the point is that a capture will make the whole story go (remember the story? he doesn't either), because now everyone else has to do something about it.  Allow him to signal his friends or leave notes or whatever, then drag him off to wherever they're putting him (say, a stockade, and then they plan to eat him).  He now has 0 armor, 0 ammo, 0 weapons.  Except, of course, he's a Navy SEAL, highly trained in unarmed combat, stealth, and so forth.

Now watch what happens as you try to get everyone else involved in trying to rescue the guy:

1. They say, "Hell with him, we don't care."
2. They say, "Cool, let's rescue him -- 'course, we don't have much in the way of weaponry, so we'll have to do it the cool way."

Meanwhile, what does the SEAL-guy say?

1. "Waah! You can't do that!  That's cheating!  No fair!  Waaaah!"
2. "Hmm.  Let's try it the old-fashioned way."

Now if you get double 2's, as it were, the game might run smoothly from there, because you've got action all around, and the SEAL is disarmed but involved.  If you get double 1's, then what's happening is that this guy is a weenie, and nobody really likes him or his way of doing things, and the sooner he says, "Well, fine, I'm taking my guns and going home," the happier everyone else will be.

At this point I think it's a bit late for revisions of what you've already got.  So take all his toys away and see if he can, like a serious commando, do well without them.  That's the point about commandos, you see: sure, they know all about lots of great toys, but even without them you really don't want to mess with these people.  If this guy doesn't get that (and I suspect he doesn't), then he's going to try to kill any game you run, because all he cares about is playing Doom in an RPG.  If he wants to be serious about "I was trained as a commando, and admittedly I'm a gun crazy, but I can kill with both hands and feet while blindfolded and naked," then you've got a game.

If this actually works, and you get a reasonable game out of it, then at the end let the guy get back to his truck and really blow the crap out of something.  It's a reward for good behavior.

Next time around, as several people have said, I think you need to hold the line on tone and so forth.  Don't get into arguments about what's realistic; those never end, and tend to favor the munchkins because you know what? there are lots of crazies out there with lots and lots of guns.  Instead try to explain that "it's not that kind of game," period.  If it helps, try explaining in terms of power level: this is the bow-and-arrow, staff, and knives sort of power level, and if he wants a single hunting rifle with maybe a box of bullets, that's cool (maybe he wanted to go hunting on his vacation?), but what sort of maniac hunts with strong poisons (which make the meat inedible) and grenades (which make the meat scattered across the forest)?  You want the guy to be reasonable, and if he really can't see that it is not reasonable, in a "just some guys hanging and drinking beer in their cabin in the woods" game, to have a Special Ops complete armament kit, then he's just not going to fit into this sort of game.

As a suggestion for this guy, if he's into SEALs: how about he used to be a SEAL, and now he's fifty, bald, and with a huge potbelly, and although he's got a pistol and a couple knives around, and takes them on hunting trips as a kind of nostalgia thing, actually he's kind of out of shape and isn't really sure he could hit the broad side of a barn; mostly what he does on these trips is drink beer, eat brats, and talk about how cool he used to be.  Now, when the going suddenly gets rough again, how much of his old self is still there?  See that's a story about a character; what he's got is a computer-game.

Sorry to ramble.

[szilard]

Another option is to let him kill the thing.

...and then make that not help matters at all.


There are various ways this could happen. Maybe the thing in the woods was actually trying to help people against something worse than it (mistaken identity). Maybe it becomes stronger after death. Maybe it has a mom.

At that point, the other players might point out that this guy hasn't helped matters with all his guns.

You might also want to consider having the military police show up.

Stuart

[Mike Holmes]

OK, Chris' idea is really, really bad. What you should do is just explain to the guy that he doesn't understand the sort of game you want to run, and that he won't be allowed to play. That it was your mistake to allow the character in the first place, and that you apollogize that it didn't work out. Don't make any further attempt to explain to the player anything unless you see some real honest sign that he really does want to understand.

OK, that all that good advice and party line stuff out of the way, I love Chris' idea. I can't advocate it, but, if this guy really is a weenie, and you don't mind messing with him to the point where he may hate you and never talk to you again, there are lot's of fun things you can do with him.

First, the whole "combustion" thing is obviously a croc on your part. That'll only antagonize him. As Chris points out there are much more reasonable ways to depower the character if that's what you're after. But here's how Bastard Mike would handle it (a close friend of Sergeant Mike).

OK, your up at the cabin, he's got his arsenal along, and they all know there's something out in the woods. Fine. So, get him as Chris said to go off after the thing. Prefereably alone. Have him find that, in fact, what he's up against is some manifestation of Yog-Sothoth. Spawn, in fact. Basically horriffic malleable creatures that you can define in any way you like. Throw one at him, and let him blow it all to smithereens. Then another, and another. Keep him busy blowing crap up to his heart's content. Somewhere in a cave, Yog-Sotthoth is just getting more pissed, and creating more young, and sending them after the guy.

Actually let him have as much fun blowing the crap out of stuff. When he runs out of ammunition, he'll want to go "Back to base" to get more. He might even want to bring a batallion of apache helicopters with him. Let him. His story, let him do what he want's. Doesn't matter anyhow.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, where all the other PCs are huddled in the cabin, a ghost comes to them. It's a small girl who tells a tale of how the village on the other side of the mountain was destroyed by these creatures, and how they were taken back to the cavern of Yog-Sothoth under the mountain, and consumed by it. Now their insane tourtured souls roam about trying to find someone to help them out of their predicament.

Some of these souls are also dangerous, and will threaten the characters. This is where you focus your attention. Make the Seal's encounters dull:
"You encounter another four armed three mouth beast that issues a foul stench. What do you do?" But make the ghost scenes truely horriffic. I'm sure if you think about it, that you'll find a way to really jaz up things. Do scenes out of The Sixth Sense. Make the ghosts simultaneously pathetic and in need of help, but also just too mangled to be dealt with easily. And some may "attack" characters unreasoningly, turing their hair white, threatening heart attacks, etc.

The Seal might try to return to help them out when he sees that this is where the real fun is; but his weaapons will be useless. They're ghosts, and can't be damaged by physical weapons, of course. He can't complain that this is a croc; it was in the "adventure" planned from the start (as far as he knows), and after all, he's doing great blowing up all sorts of opponents. Not like he has nothing to do, right? :-)

Anyhow, the solution to the problem is to banish Yog-Sothoth. For the unaware, Yog-Sothoth is a god of the Cthulhu mythos that represents a gate through dimensions. It can be blowed up where it stands, but it can't be destroyed. Blow it up here, and it'll still exist in a million other places (most not on Earth). If the SEAL encounters it, he'll try and blow it up. Let him. Then Yog-Sothoth just oozes out of the interstices of space again, and fills the cavern.

If you're feeling generous to the player who made the guy with the "healing" ability, allow him to use it to placate the spirits. But, frankly, I think he's not too good either. What I'd do is just make sure that no matter what, nobody got wounded through the whole story. So that the power is useless. That'll teach 'em for trying to outthink the GM. Next time he'll make the Farmer.

BTW, whatever you do reward the player who made the Farmer* by making him the hero, by figuring out the answer to the dillemma. Have the ghosts hint that it has something to do with seasons and the cycle of life or some such BS. Then the character makes a Farming die roll, and realizes that it has to do with sowing and reaping souls, and that this means that the way to remove Yog-Sothoth is to perform some ancient indian ritual that his grandpappy tought him (and which until this point he thought was just some useless bit of Native American trivia).

The characters all have to use their various abilities to make the ritual work. If you're feeling more kindly to the SEAL by this time, allow him to clear the road to the cavern for the players. If he's still an ass, then just have him come along and watch helplessly as the other PCs perform the ritual, and save the day. The Ghosts will all be released.

Now, one cool thing may happen along the way. The SEAL, may decide to try to close off the cavern. If he decides to do this make it obvious to the other players that if he does this that the ghosts will never be able to rest, and they'll never be able to get any skiing done on this vacation. :-) Basically, put them potentially against each other. Either the player will be forced to relent and allow the PCs to do their own thing, or this will put them at odds. If so, great. Communicate a really cool idea to one of the other players to kill the seal off. Tell them to back off, and tell the SEAL that he can do what he wants. Then tell them that they need one human sacrifice in order to make the ritual work (not true unless the SEAL player tries to mess up the plot). Then set things up so that they can poison him so that he doesn't even have a chance. Or some such devious, and inescapable method.

BTW, there is no saving roll against ingesting one ounce of pure strychnine, or whatever he's using on the creatures. After all, you haven't allowed to creatures to roll for one, right? :-) Anyhow, the point is, let them kill him, and kill him easily. Killing a person is really not difficult if you have the will to do it, and they don't suspect you. Not that I'm some expert or anything...

If he storms off before they have a chance to kill him, and seal the cavern, then Yog-Sothoth simply dissolves his way out with his acid blood. The sympathetic ghosts will tell the other PCs and be sure to leave the SEAL in the dark about it. At which point his defenses down, thinking he's won, he'll be all the more easy to kill.

Anyhow, another thing he might try is to get the cavern nuked or some other silliness. Well, it's about five hours to that nearest millitary base, you see, and by the time he gets there, and organizes the attack, the players will have wrapped up the whole caper and have gone home.

The overall point? Combat power is often meaningless. Make it so in this game. Allow the player to flail and flail, but the solution turns out to have nothing to do with his character's selected abilities. If he complains, then just say that you tried to warn him, but he wouldn't listen...

:-)

Mike

* This is your best player. reward him at every opportunity by making his character concept shine. He did exactly what you told him to as far as making his character. The fact that he wasn't "heroic" was your fault, I'm guessing. In fact, the whole thing is your fault for not communicating your expectations to start, and then allowing the misscommunication to become problematic by allowing the player to keep a character that you knew wouldn't work. Do better at the start next time. It's OK to say no.

[Jack Spencer Jr]

...noted that his backup rifle was some sort of weird air rifle thing that shoots the super-lethal hydrogen dioxin darts, standard issue Navy SEAL stuff, or so he says.

Dioxin??? I recall that name from high school chemistry. It's one of the most toxic chemicals known to man. It's the active ingredient in agent orange. The community of Times Beach, Missouri had to evacuate because of dioxin contanination. I have serious doubts that something like that would be standard issue any place.

I don't know the guy, really at all, except for a few posts, but I want him to be able to play and have fun and post - but my idea of the narrated game and his want for the military badass are SOOOOOO different - can this game be salvaged?

I don't think so. Not unless you shift to a military combat munchkin thing, which is not what you wanted, or you can convince him to play the way you want, but you've had no luck with this so far.

You sould privately discuss what you're trying to do with this game to this guy. Outline the sort of things you're trying to do and why what he is doing is interfering with everybody else's fun. Make sure you point out this fact, he is basically ruining it for everyone. Then ask him if he would like to try to play that way. If he says yes, then let him. I would make him roll up a new character, though. If he says no, then let him know it's no harm, no foul. The game is just not what he wanted. Let him know if he reads the posts and decides it looks like fun after all, he can join back if he wants.

This is my best advise based on this.

[Mike Holmes]

Dioxin??? I recall that name from high school chemistry. It's one of the most toxic chemicals known to man.

Ooh, I forgot that. Definitely no save vs. Dioxin.

I can see it now. The player's response:
"But a SEAL never lets anyone mess with his stuff!"

Yeah, it's going to be a firey death for this game no matter what.

BTW, we have a term for this player's style. It's called "My Guy" mode. Because he's always telling you that things have to be this way or that because "My Guy wouldn't leave his dioxin darts unattended, not even to go to the bathroom!"

No matter what you say has happend that was negative to the character, he'll have a "My Guy" response. "My Guy would never get caught in an avalanche, all SEALS are taught to be able to ski out of such a situation! And even if he was caught, he'd have an oxygen supply with him, and be able to dig out (SEALS being as physically fit as they are)."

As long as this behavoir persists, this game is going nowhere. The only kind of game this player will play is one in which you set up things for him to knock down. He's trying to "win" the game, and you're trying to "tell" a story. These two objectives are in direct opposition to each other here.

BTW, for the funniest description of such a player EVAR, check out the the posts by AB3 at www.rpg.net. Specifically look for the player El Disgusto, and his ultimate "My Guy" ninja roleplaying.

Mike

[Jack Spencer Jr]

meanwhile developing a sub-branch which inhibits combustion, making firearms, some electricity, vehicles, etc. useless.

This is passive agressive GMing here. I would advise against this. It just frustrates the plkayer until they find a way around such things, and then it frustrates the GM again. Take the direct approach outlined above and don't do stuff like this ever again. :)

[Dr. Velocity]

Wow, thanks everyone - I'm honestly surprised to get so many replies, and people that read my whole post!

"The reason that mismatches like this are to be avoided is that the game becomes less fun.
Sounds to me like it's time for some natural consequences. Treat the player as you'd treat the others, let his mighty weaponry finish the adventure in 11 minutes, and then say, "OK. What did everyone think of that?"

Garbonzo is right, and I will probably end up doing this, as, you say, it IS a test session, which everyone knows. Its a learning experience for me as well and yes it WAS my fault for not laying down more firm rules and expectations - I was naively hoping, I guess, that everyone would sort of censor themselves to a reasonable extent, and they did - except him, but that doesn't make it his fault, I agree.

Chleric's idea of setting up a fight and having the SEAL captured is interesting, especially considering the other players' activities - however, I'm not sure,  as this group plays online strategy games together as an 'alliance' and more or less can count on each other, officially or unofficially, and them leaving him to the elements might mess with that, so I will hold this as a possible result but not one I will put in without having exhausted other options.

Szilard's "out-munchkin-the-munchkin" is what I was leaning toward anyway and will probably use that anyway, to one extent or another, if nothing else then at least for a cheap thrill.

And I got a response from the legendary Mike Holmes! Its like my birthday or something! =) "Yog-Sothoth...." I was, in fact, working toward a Cthulhoid angle, with the inhibiting crap - its a slimy, fungoid mucus that is coming down with the rain as part of a larger plot of a summoning spell, making the area safe for the manifestation of a Horror of some kind - the idea for the inhibitor was planned out BEFORE the SEAL, to make the players think and face a gritty struggle and discover clues - it just so happened the SEAL came along and the 'magical anti-combustion rain' scrwed him royally - so you can see why its hard for me to have found a way out easily, it really WAS part of the original plot and wasn't directed against HIM specifically, but it sure as hell looks like it was.

The ghost idea and the cavern, I admit, I hadn't thought of, and really think there is something there to really put some action in the game; point taken and agreed with on the characters, especially the farmer - though I haven't seen the player post for a while so they might have gotten bored, so I'm not sure what I can do that way. I agree, again, about it being my fault for not communicating better to the players - I was, as mentioned, wanting to leave it as open-ended as possible for them to try whatever they wanted, without being pure munchkins - an Indiana Jones type has joined recently, which is cool, whip, pistol, hat - no problem; my intent was to let them use whatEVER they wanted, as I didn't really have a CONSCIOUS expectation of what they would or wouldn't take. I guess it was just blind trust, which, while good intent, isn't the way to run a game with even a smidgen of external non-player authority ... lesson learned, big time.

And finally Jack Spencer Jr. as well, and while your point about frustrating the player, as mentioned above, is agreed with, the anti-combustion thing was part of the basic story *before* the SEAL character was made - it just turned out this character was basically castrated by this (what was, to me) basically not that bad a disadvantage; it was not only some miscommunication on my part, power-gaming on his part, but also what appears to be an absolutely pure strain of bad luck, as a pre-existing element of the story almost cripples this walking arsenal character.

I dunno if any of you will be back to read this, but thanks for all the input, from all of you (including the ones I didnt respond to specifically), its all very helpful, and I'll post any big development in case anyone is interested. Thanks again everyone.

[Walt Freitag]

Wow, thanks everyone - I'm honestly surprised to get so many replies, and people that read my whole post!

<snip>

I dunno if any of you will be back to read this, but thanks for all the input, from all of you (including the ones I didnt respond to specifically), its all very helpful, and I'll post any big development in case anyone is interested.

(Emphases added.)

Gotta love those low expectations! (Whenever a new correspondent says something like "Wow! Somebody actually paid attention to what I posted!" or "Wow! Noboby called me an idiot!" it reminds me not to take the Forge for granted.)

Doc, this is wonderful stuff. I encourage, I urge, I beg you to keep your promise to post further developments. 'T'would be unfair to pique our interest with an intriguing problem, and then keep the most important parts -- what you decide to do about it, and how it works out -- to yourself!

- Walt

[Jack Spencer Jr]

the anti-combustion thing was part of the basic story *before* the SEAL character was made - it just turned out this character was basically castrated by this

Ah, OK I have heard horror stories about this sort of thing being done. My friend played in a RIFTS rip-off game and the author/GM didn't have the driving rules done yet. For go or ill, my friend took it into his head to try to get one of the really cool hover tanks the bad guys were using. Every time they did, something would happen to it. The first one got blown up right away. The second ran out of gas after 3 seconds. You get the idea.

[Jason Lee]

I know this is off topic...but I just have to say it.

I knew an ex-SEAL.  He was mid 20's.  He was rather small and unthreatening.  He worked with me at Kinkos.  He drove a Honda civic.  When he finished college he went on to be an engineer.

Never once did he shoot me with a poison dart, or bring a grenade launcher to work 'just in case'.

BTW - Mike, thank you for that little bit of joy.

[Dr. Velocity]

Well, thats terrific guys. Small update since last night...

The farmer player retired, too much offline stuff to do to continue but said she was enjoying what she had played, then made her last post where the farmer ran off into the woods with a knife - which was, for me, actually perfect, since I was trying to figure out how to get someone to go out into the woods to find a mutilated cow corpse in a tree, for the players' benefit, and so thats taken care of. Yah hokey but it ties an earlier thing in.

The SEAL explained, in character, the anti-combustion field to everyone, then, again, cleverly came up with another good idea, to try to push his Fast Attack Vehicle (like an assault 4 wheeler with a cargo bay according to his description) to the only building which has light in it, which should be easy because this slimy mold is covering the ground. So he roleplays but... not if he doesn't have to, it looks like - but he seems to be out of his 'oh no we're doomed' phase so things are looking optimistic. They're all in the lone cabin with what amounts to elder signs, which prevents the creature from entering and the disruption field from working - the cabin was being used by a mythos investigator but of course no one knows that, so I've left in plenty of insurance in case something goes horribly wrong, and am about to add in the ghosts. Thanks again everyone, its looking fine so far. =)

[Dr. Velocity]

Well nothing vital so far, really, but an interesting little turn of events.

One player went back into a lodge, upstairs,  to get his bow, so I had the ghosts make their first appearance - he did well and backed toward the window, trying to keep them distracted and listening to them (I dunno why he was trying to leave).

Now, I wrote this out normally, and Sealboy Kahless had the next post and said 'I will distract the apparition!' (even though his character shouldn't have known anything about it), and he proceeds to fire three grenade rounds (he was near the circle of protection which nullified the no-combustion field) into the ground floor, then proceeded to hose the ground floor with his M-60 as well, heh. A distraction, he called it.

One of the other players posted next and was like "WTF?! Are you nuts?!" and his response was, 'well, its not like I used explosives' - I posted next clarifying that he had INDEED used explosives, quoting from his own post, then proceeded to cause the main NPC lodgekeeper lady to distract him and accidentally wipe out the abandoned farmer character and another NPC (who I had planned to keep in the game) with his 'distracting' heavy weapons fire which he chose to unleash before knowing where any of the other characters were. So the main NPC that distracted him, the friendly lodgekeeper lady, I've decided is probably temporarily insane from seeing her NPC friend mowed down in an accident in a mountain vacation spot during a freak storm - plus I sent the 'healing' PC, since he was on his horse, off at a jolt when the horse got scared, into the area to find the cow corpse in the woods, and a small occult ritual and a trail leading to the cave. We'll see if he follows it or tries to go back and heal the NPCs.

Amusingly, Kahless response to all this was a quick two parter - "Medic!" and "I need to check into the grenade manufacturer, those appeared to be defective".