Sell me on...

[Waiwode]

I'm currently looking for a new fantasy game, and TROS has caught my attention.

I've already combed the web-site and am about to start pouring over the Quick-start pdf.

Can someone (or heck, someones) give me a "5 things they like, 3 things they don't like" pro-con for TROS?  I'd be muchly appreciative.

Doug.

[Tywin Lannister]

5 things I like:

1. The combat system is excellent - so good that it's almost as much fun
   just "doing duels" between rolled up characters. It flows...like no other
   RPG combat system.

2. The character creation is great - players have choices, but these must
   be made carefully.

3. The resolution system, using D10s to determine the number and degree
   of succeses.

4. The various maneuvers.

5. Spiritual Attributes to better define characters.

3 things I don't like:

1. Too much negative comments on other game systems, and comments
   about how this game has it all, while many rules and options are given
   limited space or vague descriptions.

2. The layout/design of some of the interior pages.

3. Weapon damage.

[Bankuei]

Here's the short list, but I'd highly recommend checking out some of the threads further down, particularly on SAs, but there's also some recent threads over on rpg.net as well.

Pro's

1) Spiritual Attributes
This drives the cinematic sort of game I've always been looking for.  Period.

2) Combat
Yeah, its been said, but the fact that a) I, as a player, make the real decisions that determine my life or death, not the dice, is great, and b) you always get a thrill knowing that every encounter counts, not just "Oh, that's a couple of hp, I can soak it".

3) Magic
"It's unbalanced and too powerful" some say.  Um, excuse me, is Gandalf "balanced"?  Magic is something you respect, and not when folks hit double digit levels.

4) No Weapon is the "best"
Each weapon has its strengths and weaknesses, but the fact that a knife is just as dangerous as a two handed sword, under the correct conditions is something I dig a lot.

5) Improvement during play
Yeah, sort of an offshoot of SA's, but really, the fact that you are immediately rewarded, not at the end of a session, really drives play like no one's business.

Dislikes-

1) The Character Sheet
Yep, that's the #1 on my list.  It's crunchy, it's complex, and it scares people.  First thing I did was ghetto design one for my group that was easier on the eyes.

2) Not enough detail with the setting
Jake gave us a great overview with Weyrth, I want some details.  While its definitely cool to put in your own details, even a reading list of recommended books or historical eras regarding the nations would be cool.  Obviously many of the nations are based off "real world" nations, I'd like to be able to look up some myths and tales that fit the mold.

3) Waiting on the supplements
Like drugs, the first hit is great, the withdrawal sucks.

Chris

[Salamander]

Five things I like:

1). Combat is deadly, well thought out, closer to the real thing than any I have seen before and should not be entered lightly.

2). You don't have to kill things to advance your Character.

3). Spiritual Attributes  can drive the character and provide for real roleplaying opportunities.

4). Skills are improved through use and not through killing things.

5). Magic is massively powerful and truely dangerous to all involved.

Three things I don't like:

1). The lack of barding on the original equipment list.

2). The fact that Flos Deulatorium (TFoB) is going to take so darned long to get here.

3). The world set up.

[arxhon]

I've written a playtest review (a real playtest, not a mislabelled capsule review, which happens a lot) for RPGnet. I haven't mentioned it before, because i wanted to wait until it was actually released.

It should be up sometime in the next week or so. I really get into the system, what is good, and mention some things that bothered me. Here is a short review.

What i like in order from high to low:

1. The Spiritual Attributes are the most innovative thing i've ever seen for any game. I cannot say enough good things about this concept. Character definition, character advancement, and bonus dice, all rolled into one.

2. The combat system. It is very tactical, and very deadly. Getting hit hurts, and it takes a long time to recover.

3. The character generation system. It allows players to generate the character they want, but screws with powermongering munchkin tactics fairly effectively. It can still be munchkinned somewhat, but not as much as some other games.

4. The player driven aspect of the game. It really involves the players, and lets them tell the story they want to tell.

5. The setting. Some people complain about not having any information. I disagree. In most cases, a culture is easily determined from its description. I also like the semi-vagueness, because it allows me to put whatever i want into the world, without worrying about a map from some other supplement screwing things up for me, by placing every single little thing possible in an area and depriving me of some level of creativity. As well, the players can't go out, buy a location supplement, and know averything about it before i do.

Then again, I'm used to being able to fill the map in as i please. Your mileage may vary.

#6. I can get a game going without many hours of prep. Since the players are actively trying to get things done, i have to worry less about motivating them, which in turn saves me a lot of time.

What i Dislike:

1. The pseudo-scientific explanations given in the Sorcery section. These have, and will continue, to cause problems of interpretation, and serious abuse. E.g.: "Oooh, look! I'm gonna create a microscopic creature that attacks my target and grows in it's blood, and can then be spread by breathing on other people!" i.e. pneumonic plague. Those reading this with a genetics background will understand what smallpox (or equivalent) that secretes botulinum toxin could do (Everyone in the world dies within about 2 months without magical aid). Laser beams are another possibility.

Of course, this is kind of overboard, but i think you get the idea.

2. The layout of the book really bothers me. The index is great, and there are many helpful things to find what you are looking for, but the character generation section is spread out over something like 60 pages, and the combat section is split between chapter 3 and chapter 4. There are typos all over the book, and at least one table is misreferenced (in the sorcery section) in the text.

3. This one is minor: ther should have been something defined in the system for a character to stand after being knocked down, rather than forcing the GM to make up a house rule. While on the topic, there are 2 values given for CP penalties when knocked down.

It was a lot harder for me to come up with things that i dislike than things i like.

The Riddle of Steel rocks, plainly put. It pulled me out of a decade long retirement from gaming. It's that good.

[Valamir]

Hey Arx.  I agree with basically...well everything in your summary above.

However:  This statement

The Spiritual Attributes are the most innovative thing i've ever seen for any game

Combined with this statement

It pulled me out of a decade long retirement from gaming

Caused me to raise an eyebrow.

The SAs are pure genius, tis true.  But methinks you missed a whole lot of RPG innovation during your retirement if these are the most ever for you. :-)

[arxhon]

Well, Valamir, i've been browsing games now and then (every year or so) for most of that decade, but nothing caught my eye as much as SA's. Being in retirement isn't the quite same thing as being out of touch. Once in a while, i'd see something kind of neat (usually something for GURPS), but it wasn't enough to drag me out again (i don't like GURPS).

In '92, i had played nearly everything, and seen everything else, so a marginally different mechanic didn't excite me.

Chances are, you're right: i have missed a lot of innovation. I mean, how long has Sorcerer been on the market (seriously, i don't know.)? Didn't know about it until late last year, when i seriously started looking online for a new game, with little hope of finding one that i wanted to play. Everything seemed to be D20.

Mind you, most of my browsing involved going to the FLGS and flipping through the piles and piles of D20/WW/FASA/Chaosium/GURPS games that are stocked there, along with assorted other games (Millenium's End, Amber or Kult, anyone?) that had been sitting there for long enough to collect some dust. The problem with that shop is it has to stock what's popular. Not faulting the guy in any way, he has to make a living. But not stocking the "cutting edge", as it were, has really limited my own exposure.



So, yeah, i'd been in retirement, but still keeping an eye open in the store (though not online until recently).

[Waiwode]

Thanks for the replies guys.

The five and three thing seemed to work well (not much point in just asking fans if it rocks or not).

Tonight I'm setting aside an hour to read the Quick start.  Wish me luck.

Doug.

[Lance D. Allen]

Note that the Quickstart rules will give you a decent understanding of the basics of gameplay, but they are a heavily stripped down ruleset. I'd recommend looking up the combat simulator, and DLing the Character Sheet .pdf to get an idea of how much more there is to the game.

[Morfedel]

Well, Valamir, i've been browsing games now and then (every year or so) for most of that decade, but nothing caught my eye as much as SA's.

Check out Godlike (www.godlikerpg.com); it doesn't have anything personality-wise, but it has the most innovative system I've seen yet for both combat and task resolution. From what I've read so far in the quickstart rules and reviews, in terms of task resolution I think it even beats TRoS for innovation.

But it was designed very hardcore with a specific genre in mind - gritty, low level superheroing in world war 2. It would take some tweaking and work to make it fit anywhere else. I seriously considered tweaking it for fantasy, but I was going to have to seriously modify the superpowers to make a magic system.

And TRoS has caught my curiousity - and the passions idea does sound very fascinating. So I decided I'm going to pick it up and give it a shot.

At this rate, I'm running a face to face game to start in a few weeks. I'm going to run either 3E (not ideal, its only advantage is that everyone knows it), Lord of the Rings (not an innovative system, but marginally better than 3E), Godlike, Ars Magica, or TRoS.

I'm leaning towards the last two; judgement will wait until I've ready the TRoS book.