News:

Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.

Main Menu

Simplifying initiative issues!

Started by Eamon Voss, May 12, 2003, 12:55:06 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Eamon Voss

One of the few things I don't like about the TROS combat system is all that complexity involved in dealing with buying off initiative during simultaneous hits.  I am cooking up my own system, and wouldn't mind any suggestions on how to do it.

My basic concept is to follow these steps:

1. Reflex roll off, with roll modified by length differences
(So if I have a long weapon and you have a medium weapon, you suffer a -1 die penalty to your roll.)

2. If you lose the above, you can then buy off the difference by expending dice from your combat pool.  The maximum difference you can buy off is equal to your perception rating.  Your opponent can do the same.

3. If this goes to a tie, then the strikes land at the same time.

Comments?  Criticisms? Arguements that the current system is fine?
Realism in a melee game is not a matter of critical hit charts, but rather the ability to impart upon the player the dynamism of combat.

Jake Norwood

"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -R.E. Howard The Tower of the Elephant
___________________
www.theriddleofsteel.NET

Bob Richter

Quote from: Eamon VossOne of the few things I don't like about the TROS combat system is all that complexity involved in dealing with buying off initiative during simultaneous hits.  I am cooking up my own system, and wouldn't mind any suggestions on how to do it.

My basic concept is to follow these steps:

1. Reflex roll off, with roll modified by length differences
(So if I have a long weapon and you have a medium weapon, you suffer a -1 die penalty to your roll.)

2. If you lose the above, you can then buy off the difference by expending dice from your combat pool.  The maximum difference you can buy off is equal to your perception rating.  Your opponent can do the same.

3. If this goes to a tie, then the strikes land at the same time.

Comments?  Criticisms? Arguements that the current system is fine?

It's certainly a lot simpler (thank heavens!) but I'll have to try it in play to see how it works.
So ye wanna go earnin' yer keep with yer sword, and ye think that it can't be too hard...

Lance D. Allen

Anyone with a game going who decides to give this a try, I personally would welcome any feedback on how it works. I'm generally a game purist, and attempt to play a game as intended and written with as few modifications as possible, but buying initiative is indeed a sore spot.
~Lance Allen
Wolves Den Publishing
Eternally Incipient Publisher of Mage Blade, ReCoil and Rats in the Walls

Aaron

Only problem I can see is that unless one fighter scored alot more successes on the REF test,  nearly all REF rolls to determine initative would result in simultaneous attacks.  Only those who were doing one of the defence and attack combined maneuvers wouldn't spend those CP to make their attack simultaneous.  For them it doesn't matter either way.

Aaron

Jake Norwood

Well, you know that if you don't buy initiative (or just ignore the rule), then all you've got to do is (if both throw red) roll a contest of reflex with the winner striking first. If that ties then a contest of wp. If that ties, then it's simultaneous. This is in the standard rules, too.

Jake
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -R.E. Howard The Tower of the Elephant
___________________
www.theriddleofsteel.NET

Eamon Voss

Quote from: AaronOnly problem I can see is that unless one fighter scored alot more successes on the REF test,  nearly all REF rolls to determine initative would result in simultaneous attacks.  Only those who were doing one of the defence and attack combined maneuvers wouldn't spend those CP to make their attack simultaneous.  For them it doesn't matter either way.

Yep, ain't it grand?  Makes combat uncertain, dangerous if you will.  And gives people a good reason to up their perception.
Realism in a melee game is not a matter of critical hit charts, but rather the ability to impart upon the player the dynamism of combat.

Bomilkar

Quote from: Eamon Voss
Quote from: AaronOnly problem I can see is that unless one fighter scored alot more successes on the REF test,  nearly all REF rolls to determine initative would result in simultaneous attacks.  Only those who were doing one of the defence and attack combined maneuvers wouldn't spend those CP to make their attack simultaneous.  For them it doesn't matter either way.

Yep, ain't it grand?  Makes combat uncertain, dangerous if you will.  And gives people a good reason to up their perception.

Nice solution! I think I will use this one in my game, only with both players secretly setting a die to the number of dice they want to loose from their CP to gain the initiative. That will make for a nice mind-game of risk and bluff. I've seen a rather similar mechanism in a Czech TROS-like board game called "Arena" (not to confuse with "Titan: The Arena"), where a bunch of gladiators (the usual suspects - an assassin, a barbarian, a team of orcs...) fought against each other using different maneuvers which they had to plan out in advance. Oh, and of course there was said die for the attack-and-block mechanism. Really nice game (OOP, sadly).
Battle? There is always a desire for breathing space motivating it somewhere.
The Bashar Teg

Mike Holmes

Huh, any chance it was based on the old Gladiator game by AH? That used plotted turns too.

Mike
Member of Indie Netgaming
-Get your indie game fix online.

arxhon

OMFG! I remember that Gladiator game. It was quite a bit of fun, once you hacked your way through the rules. 'Groin shot! Instant death!"

Bomilkar

Quote from: Mike HolmesHuh, any chance it was based on the old Gladiator game by AH? That used plotted turns too.

Mike

I don't know, but I just found a link to a review of the game:http://globetrotter.crosswinds.net/index.htm?E&game/eArena.htm

When I checked the link to "Altar Games", I found out (that is: I guess, I found out - the English site is under construction, and I don't understand a single word of Czech) that the game is still in print, but that none of the promised expansion sets are currently in development.

It's a nice game with really interesting mechanics and maneuvers but no must-to-have, especially now that there is TROS, which can be used for the same purpose.
Battle? There is always a desire for breathing space motivating it somewhere.
The Bashar Teg