Another RPGNet TROS thread

[Balbinus]

Ahhh... rpg.net, the great refuge of armchair experts and social and sexual deviants from all over the world.  Remember, if you read it on the Internet or the European Press, it must be true!

While I'm here, nice random dig at the European press Eamon.  Italian, German, British, Irish, French, all foreigners to you eh?

I cannot politely express my contempt for this post.

[toli]

Remember, if you read it on the Internet or the European Press, it must be true!

While I'm here, nice random dig at the European press Eamon.  Italian, German, British, Irish, French, all foreigners to you eh?

I could be wrong, but I thought the point was not a dig at the European press per se.   It seems more like a dig at conspiracy types who think the US press isn't honest and that the Europen press is more honest.

[Balbinus]

Remember, if you read it on the Internet or the European Press, it must be true!

While I'm here, nice random dig at the European press Eamon.  Italian, German, British, Irish, French, all foreigners to you eh?

I could be wrong, but I thought the point was not a dig at the European press per se.   It seems more like a dig at conspiracy types who think the US press isn't honest and that the Europen press is more honest.

You could be right.  If so, I of course apologise for the suggestion of racism in my post.

I think it could perhaps have been better phrased however.

[Nick the Nevermet]

My apologies for being blunt, but...

The moral of the story: to be perceived as a bunch of rabid fanboys is bad, because it means the fans are giving the game a bad name.  We have become perceived as a bunch of rabid fanboys and have failed to alter that perception.  I guess I'm more or less agreeing with sentiments both Val & Balbinus have stated.

My question at this point is what further productive value does this thread have?  I suspect it now only serves to bash people or other sites, and then to rebut with "Am not!" (even if it is a rather accurate or articulate 'am not').

If my suspicion is accurate, then I suggest the thread be closed.
If my suspicion is not accurate, then please let me know why.

[Balbinus]

I think this thread probably should be closed, but I think a spin-off thread discussing common problems newbies may have with the game, common criticisms and comon reasons for disliking it would be valuable.

In that thread meaningful discussion could be had about how to correct misapprehensions while also discussing how to recognise when in fact the game just isn't right for a particular poster and knowing when to acknowledge that fact.

That kind of thing can be tremendously positive.  Not everyone needs converting.  Some who dislike the game can be brought round by better explanation.  Some may be neutral but just not understand fundamental points or the importance in actual play of aspects of the game such as Spiritual Attributes.  Some people just won't like the game whatever because it's not doing something they like.

I do think that would be a useful and potentially helpful thread.

[Nick the Nevermet]

I agree that such a thread would certainly be useful.  Clearly, some long, good thought given to the common criticisms could prove fruitful.  Responses could range from, "Ah, well, you see it actually works like this..." to "Well, it does work like that, and some like it, and others don't" to "Yeah, that could have been done a tad better."  It is getting pretty clear what some common criticisms and questions are, both here and at rpg.net, and I completely agree that some discussion of that would be useful.

With that being said, however... that is not what this thread has become.  Not really.  Underlyiong that part of the thread is a problematic layer of 'one true game' being perceived by some people.  As I said, being seen as a rabid fanboy is bad, for for the alleged fanboy, and for the game (s)he enjoys.  We can debate how much of an 'academic discourse' we want the TROS forum to have (to steal a line from Fang), but if the forum as a whole comes across as snobbish, then that is bad.

That is what this thread, at its core, is about.  Or rather, that is what this thread unveiled.  Unfortunately, I don't have much commentary on this, be it on the causes or solutions.

[Balbinus]

I don't think the forum as a whole is at risk of appearing snobbish.  This thread is unfortunate, but it is not typical of what I've found on this forum by any means.

Happily, when I've wandered over here in the past with queries or whatever I've found the RoS forum helpful and friendly.  This is the first and thankfully only time I've found it aggressive and offensive.

And the answer in a way is that fanboyism isn't a bad thing.  Enthusing is not bad.  It's only when you insult those who disagree or prefer an alternative that it all goes wrong.  Positive enthusiasm is always an asset for a game.

[Nick the Nevermet]

Good point.  

I apologize if I have been overly grumpy today :)

[Jake Norwood]

See, I don't really have to moderate...you guys are working this out on your own. Let's hear it for o'd-fashioned maturity, eh.

Jake

[Eamon Voss]

Ahhh... rpg.net, the great refuge of armchair experts and social and sexual deviants from all over the world.  Remember, if you read it on the Internet or the European Press, it must be true!

While I'm here, nice random dig at the European press Eamon.  Italian, German, British, Irish, French, all foreigners to you eh?

I cannot politely express my contempt for this post.

Hey, the media in general SUCKS.  Even (or especially) American press SUCKS.  Look at the New York Times or the Washington Times or the Washington Post or Fox News or CNN.  Each one is rife with controversy over innacuracies and opinions presented as fact.  All sides benefit and all sides lose out because of bad reporting across the board.  Poor journalism is a world-wide phenomena.

My point was, however, that on rpg.net the European press can do no wrong.  I am sorry that I expressed myself poorly.  Please accept my apologies for a poorly worded statement.  A statement that I should have never have made in the first place.  There are some decent people on rpg.net.

And yes, Italians, Germans, British, Irish, and French are all foreigners to me.  I can't help it, being an American citizen.  It is not a matter of choice, but rather a matter of international borders.  Sadly, I also have to admit that people from every other nation on the planet besides the USA are also foreignors to me!  Can you believe it?  What is wrong with me?  ;)

Not that I think those borders makes Italians, Germans, British, Irish, and French any better or worse than me or my fellow American citizens.  For that matter, the majority of those I listed make much better beer than what you find in America and all of them have the dignity to dot their respective landscapes with castles!

[Durgil]

Eamon, Durgil, thanks for the comments about sexual deviancy and being starved of all human contact.  As someone who posts more frequently on rpg.net than on the Forge and as someone who raised criticisms of the game on that thread I feel it is reasonable to assume I fell within those comments.

I don't remember including your name in my previous post, but if you feel your behavior places you there, that's not my problem.

...the responses here fall vastly below the quality of normal discourse at the Forge.  Eamon, Durgil, you have both managed to make me highly likely to disregard your posts in future rather than have to wade through more insulting nonsense like that you posted here.  Way to go guys.

I really fail to see what you are so fired up about.  Some guy (gleichman) expresses what I feel to be negative and incorrect statements about a game that I really enjoy, in a some-what insulting tone, in a completely different Forum.  Now I'm not aload to give my opinion of him, the topic, and that forum here?  Yea, maybe I should have attacked his statements there on the other forum, but who has all day to critically point out evry mistake that was made, plus I didn't go there enough to bother signing up (I think that's pretty obvious by the "enlightened one" comment that I made).  

So, you're not going to read any more posts that I make?  I personally don't think I'll be losing out on this deal.  I love gaming, but some people are really take this way too serious.

[toli]

 I love gaming, but some people are really take this way too serious.

Besides, no game is better than any other.  A player can like one game better than another.  I like TROS, but I also like Palladium when I am in a more fantastic, high hit point, magic slinging, magic weapon mode......

NT

[Brian Leybourne]

Uh.. sexual deviancy? I'll have to go read that thread again, I didn't spot anything like that in there.

Oh, and I really can't express how sorry I am that Brian Gliechman doesn't like me... :-)

Brian.

[Jake Norwood]

Allright, I take back the maturity comment. The thread is closed.

Jake

[Ashren Va'Hale]

you see, you are the type of poster I can live with, as are most of the guys on RPG.net, its the single guy, who I singled out that I have problems with. I felt I was specific enough in my crticism and explanation for not getting engaged in that debate.

Thats all from me for now