"Site Theory": How come not many folks here use OG

[Andy Kitkowski]

Consider this a curiosity thread more than anything, I don't think that this has any far reaching implications or the like.

Anyway, I couldn't help but to notice that the majority of folks here don't use existing systems with OGLs or "Very Open" Licenses, like say Action System, Fudge, etc.  M. Hopcroft is the only regular here that I can think of that self-published a game using an existing system rather than start one up from scratch.

I'm just curious why that is, considering that so many OGL games are open and editable enough that you could probably not simply "attach", but "graft" whatever components you need on to them. Many of them stank of th' generic, but yet don't seem very hard to customize to whatever setting and play style you're going for.

Any ideas why? Anyone I miss that IS working on a game using some existing system?

The only reason I could personally think of is that maybe those folks have a community found in those particular systems' BBSes, mailing lists, etc (the Fugdge list, the A! System list, etc).  Any other ideas?

And again, this topic won't lead to any games getting designed or the world shaking or anything, just some idle speculation brought about by curiosity.

-Andy

[taalyn]

I'm not interested in most OGL games because I'm not interested in the systems themselves. I like FUDGE, of those you've listed, but am just less than inspired by everything else.

I also feel that system influences the "feel" of the game, and most of the OGL systems don't supply the right "feel" for what I want to do. If I'm going to go through all the work of describing spells and combat and weapons and beasties, it's not that much more work to make it all mine. Why come up with what equates to houserules if I want the game to be mine?

Don't get me wrong - I think OGL is a good thing. I just think that most game designer types aren't going to be so interested because they can easily design their own systems.

Aidan

[Mike Holmes]

What Aidan is saying very well is that "System Does Matter". If it didn't, then any old system would be fine for any old game you wanted to make. But as it turns out, someone else's system will always be just a little off of what's best.

Now, I'm of the belief that the D20 OGL can be twisted enough to make completely new systems. As such, I laud any use of it to undermine it's original principals. This is subversive enough to entitle any such effort not just Indie, but Punk as well. :-)

It'll happen. Wick almost went down that road.

Mike

[jdagna]

Now, I'm of the belief that the D20 OGL can be twisted enough to make completely new systems. As such, I laud any use of it to undermine it's original principals. This is subversive enough to entitle any such effort not just Indie, but Punk as well. :-)

You might appreciate the up-coming d20 version of Pax Draconis, produced solely to stick a d20 logo on it to please a couple of distributors.  It relies heavily on the fact that a roll over d20 mechanic is essentially the same as a d100 roll under so that I don't have to actually change anything in my system (except character creation, to meet the licensing requirements).

My reasons for not going OGL with the core version is pretty much what's been said - the fact that making it entirely my own isn't much more work but provides a lot more ego stroking.  I also have a deep-down gut-level mistrust of anything that's free.  I probably need to see a therapist about it, but it's there nonetheless and is a reason why I don't even play many free or OGL games.

[Wormwood]

Currently working on a d20 game which keeps almost the minimum of mechanics. Among other things it throws out races, attack bonuses, saving throws, and AC. Even the obligatory random character abilities are denigrated to practically color. And this all comes from the idea that feats should be neat feats of insert-something-here rather than just switches to turn on optional rules. If that doesn't pervert d20, I'm not sure what can.

Scariest thing is it looks like it will be fully compatible (if not power level equivalent) to most other d20 games. Of course actually running items from this and any normal d20 product may cause brain damage.

   -Mendel S.

[Jeffrey Miller]

Now, I'm of the belief that the D20 OGL can be twisted enough to make completely new systems. As such, I laud any use of it to undermine it's original principals. This is subversive enough to entitle any such effort not just Indie, but Punk as well. :-)

Keep talking like that, Mike, and you'll get me to finish work on my WoD heartbreaker that's written for d20 ;)

-j-

[Jeffrey Miller]

You might appreciate the up-coming d20 version of Pax Draconis, produced solely to stick a d20 logo on it to please a couple of distributors.  It relies heavily on the fact that a roll over d20 mechanic is essentially the same as a d100 roll under so that I don't have to actually change anything in my system (except character creation, to meet the licensing requirements).

How about this - as your choice to not use the d20 system is deliberate, what is your measurement of the benefit to yourself versus the detrimental effect it _could_ have on sales?  Is your system adding anything?  Does the fine granularity of d100 solve problems more than d20?

-j-

[Brand_Robins]

I'd just like to chime in to note that while it didn't completely mutate d20, Mutants and Masterminds did spindle and fold it. No races, no classes, no random attributes, a different XP system, a different way of dealing with (and thinking of) damage, and a hero points system that can be fairly easily tweaked to help support dramatic effects all make it something other than the average d20 game.

I don't know that it always went far enough, and I wouldn't say that it necessarily supports the idea of "d20 punk" -- but it does do something other than D&D.

[Mike Holmes]

Oh, M&M is pretty mich what I have in mind here.

Actually the best one I've heard of was an idea (from woodelf IIRC), to convert d20 over totally into a social combat system. No "regular" combat allowed. Only rules for hurting people's feelings and reputations.

Cool.

Oh, and there's a game like this in a recent Polyhedron. You play a rock band that solves crimes. The combat system is replaced by a musical conflict system. Now that's what I'm talking about. This could really get people looking around.

Mike

[Jeph]

I do do a lot with the d20 OGL (or whatever its technical name is), but I don't post that here. Mostly because it's all tack-ons for DnD or d20 Modern, not new games.

Anyway, for the other games I do write . . . its just easier to make up my own system. Heck, maybe it'll turn out that it fits into one of the various OGLs in the end. *shrug* But anyway, my point is, the reason I don't use OGLs is because I'm lazy.

;-)