Character Power and Advancement

[Darren Hill]

In my perhaps futile quest to rack up a higher word count on the site than Mike Holmes' word count in the Taveruun thread, here's another question.

Advancement in this game looks pretty fast. I know there's a recommendation not to worry about it, because characters are always mortal, so that's not why I'm posting. I'm just wondering how powerful characters have become in campaigns out there, and how quickly they got there.

So, if anyone feels like it, could they post some key stats of the most powerful PCs in their games (things like: highest attributes, CP or MP Pools, etc.), and how many sessions (roughly) it has taken to reach that state.

PS: I'm geatly enjoying that Taveruun thread, by the way.

[Amy1419]

I think one reason not to worry a lot about advancement too fast is the fact that TROS can be very deadly. My favorite TROS character was getting pretty nice, she was a magical halfling and was getting pretty proficient in the magic and combat. I think she was almost at a bonus B priority and died.
So while characters can advance pretty quickly if they act on their SA's they can also die just as quickly!

Amy

[Jake Norwood]

We never found it to be a problem in our groups, though we have a pretty moderated 3-5 SAs per player thing going, with occassional blasts of much, much more.

Jake

[Darren Hill]

Pay attention at the back! ;)

Advancement in this game looks pretty fast.... I know there's a recommendation not to worry about it, because characters are always mortal, so that's not why I'm posting. I'm just wondering how powerful characters have become in campaigns out there, and how quickly they got there.

Basically I want to know how powerful characters are likely to become, so that I have an idea of suitable challenges for them. And also so that I can have an NPC villain or two who are impressively powerful to start off with, but within reach of the pcs advancement. For this it would be nice to see how other players have advanced their characters.
I know the GMs of other games may award SAs differently, but it's just a guide.

So, any chance of seeing a summary of the stats and abilities of those experienced characters? (With an estimation of how long they have been around.)

[Jake Norwood]

Ahh...my bad. That's what happens when I don't read so carefully. It was probably your spelling.

I can't offer any summaries off hand, but our average games lasted 4-5 sessions, in addition to 2 campaigns that lasted about 6 months of more-or-less weekly play. In that time I frequently saw CPs go up as much as 3 to 4 points in extreme cases and a few attributes go up. Most characters ended up with a few 5's and 6's in their attribute scheme in the longer campaigns. The biggest thing was skills, which can go up very quickly if characters really want them to and try to make it happen. This results in some blindingly stealthy or persuasive individuals after about 5 sessions, if the player is really shooting for it.

Challenges...

Generally speaking I tried to play things in what would be a simulationist-style for challenges. IOW, I created NPC stats as I felt they "should be" but created their motivations as the story needed them. This allowed the PCs to scale their own way up to some degree--they knew that a town guard or two wouldn't be a big problem, but several could be. They also knew that a master fighter could be a serious problem, but with an ambush and some strategy they could take out even the best.

Example from play:

I started one of our longer campaigns out with the PC's backed into a wall and surrounded by Gol scouts up in the Irontooth mountains. They were slightly outnumbered and cornered, so they were pretty scared from the get-go. Using a crag in the mountain wall behind them the smaller party members crawled into this cave structure and the bigger guys scaled the wall while others held back the attackers long enough to engages this escape. They were able to pick off a few Golen and get away with on minor wound, one dead NPC companion, and two badly wounded NPC companions. They managed an escape.

They then re-cooped, set up provisions for the badly wounded, and all healthy or healthy-enough PCs and NPCs ran off to wipe out the entire Gol scouting party--30 Golen in all, dragging 3 of their own wounded.

So it happened that 6 characters--5 PCs and one NPC--managed to set up a wicked ambush and wipe every last one of the Golen off the face of Weyrth. In the process one character was lightly wounded, and another lost a leg at the knee while foolishly taking on the last two Golen by himself; it was an easily avoidable casualty, and a perfect example of bad decisions being the most dangerous thing in TROS.

As a side note, the said character got himself a peg leg and was involved in 2 more sessions before the Player decided to kill his character in a blaze of glory and use the insight for a newer, smarter character.

I bring this up because I would have thought the 30 golen far too large a challenge for even 6 very experienced characters, but they pulled it off.

My own rule of thumb for fighting challenges, at least, looks something like this:

One-on-One
4CP greater than PC - serious challenge. The PC will be lucky to get out alive or unscathed.
2CP greater than PC - tough, but do-able if the PC is smart
0CP greater than PC - still a challenge, especially if the GM plays too smart.

Be prepared for the eventuality of a wounding, though a smart PC will still win. I'd also like to add that in the movie/novel paradigm that I like to work from with TROS (as opposed to the traditional DnD-esque model), the main bad guy is usually not much better than the protagonist, and may be his equal in those stories where the protagonist and villan actually square off.

2 CP less than PC - Only a challenge if the PC makes a lot of mistakes.
4 CP less than PC - this guy is toast, maybe even just a mook.

Many-on-Many
The total CP of all the bad guys should be equal to or just above the total CP of the PCs if you want a pretty standard low-risk fight. It can be as much as twice the total CP of the PCs if you want a real bloody mess, that will leave the players panting but estatic should they pull it off.

I've used these guidelines for a long time. It's resulted in 2 or 3 permanent maimings and one PC death in about 2 years of play, which is pretty good IMO. Just make sure you know your players--the challenges are really for them, not for their characters.

Jake

[Darren Hill]

Ahh...my bad. That's what happens when I don't read so carefully. It was probably your spelling.

    :)

Excellent - that's the sort of thing I was looking for. I'll give you a B+ (marked down for tardiness).
Seriously, I've saved those guidelines - as you say, they may or may not be suitable for my group, but I have starting point to experiment with.

Also, you mentioned that the villains are often not far different in terms of skill from the heroes in these genres. This is true, but I know my players - a couple of them I can guarantee will go hell for leather to improve their proficiencies. So I'm likely to set up a sort of D'artangan v Rochefort situation: encounter a fearful nemesis, and over the campaign, gradually (or not so gradually) reduce the difference in skill and eventally gain the better.

The game anecdote was fun too. I've often put players into positions I didn't think they could win (they often weren't meant to), to see what would happen, and every now and then they do come up gold.

[Overdrive]

One-on-One
2 CP less than PC - Only a challenge if the PC makes a lot of mistakes.

Heh, one of my players has such a bad luck (even though his character has luck of 5) that he has _twice_ lost a 1-on-1 fight against an inferior opponent. With a relevant SA firing. With making good decisions. With me as a GM playing a bit dumb, so not to kill the character.

Maybe the PC should be dead- next time will tell..

Thanks for the guidelines, by the way. At least I had trouble for the first two sessions to come up with suitable challenges.

[Lance D. Allen]

Something to bring up that Jake may not have considered, or simply decided not to mention.. Arms and armor. If your opponent has a dead-even CP with you, but is armed with a longer weapon with good damage and fairly easy use, and is armored in full harness, that scales up his threat level as well.

As an example, Tiberius Damarisk, as designed, is a great character (yes, I'm biased) and quite effective, if used as designed. He's not a duelist, he's a bounty hunter, and will never, ever take on an opponent in even odds if at all possible to do so. He is very much aware of terrain, and will use close spaces (such as alleyways, hallways, etc.) where his short-sword will be relatively unencumbered, but a larger weapon will have trouble.

But face him against a roughly equal opponent, such as Julianos Vainsteel, with longer weapons which are just about as quick, and he loses more times than he wins.

Do NOT down-play the importance of arms and armor when considering the relative challenge level of NPCs.

[Darren Hill]

As ever, good advice, Lance.

[Morfedel]

Great thread here.

Jake: I'd love to hear the details on how they wiped out the entire 30-count gol scouting party! Care to give? :)

[Jake Norwood]

Great thread here.

Jake: I'd love to hear the details on how they wiped out the entire 30-count gol scouting party! Care to give? :)

It was a mountanous wooded area. There were some camo and stealth checks, then they peppered the group with about 3 or four bows. The two best fighters hit from the front and the back for "crowd control" and to give the bowmen more time. I used the suprise and initiative rules and the book, and the encumbrance rules (all the Golen were wearing packs), and gave the PCs an extra round or two as the Golen tried to draw their weapons, etc. After the first few moments of surprise, all but one or two of the archers joined the fray with swords drawn.

Oh, and I think luck (but the attribute and the real thing) helped, too.

Jake

[Morfedel]

Wow! Still, 30 gols? That ambush sounds daring, but I would not have thought it was clever! I mean, a few rounds of bow shots, and a few fighters engaged, still doesn't seem to me to equate to a small group of pcs wiping out 30 gol!

Then again, you did say they had luck, hehe!

[Jake Norwood]

Well, it was almost 2 years ago and the details are fuzzy. They had the area carefully set up, but I forgot how, so I left all that out.

Jake

[Jasper the Mimbo]

Check out this link. http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=4998&highlight=

This a game I'm in and it's about as high powered as any I've ever seen or heard. My character is an ex-Angel with 64 total stat points. A couple people in the game have CP's of 20 or more. As a group we can and have taken on combats with 10 to 1 odds. The guy who wrote the above thread's character had a Spell Pool of 50 for one giant casting in the middle of his last session.