Newbie of Steel

[talath1221]

Alright, I picked up The Riddle of Steel because I heard good things about it at EN World. Well, I'm glad I picked it up and would love to run some games for my group. I downloaded the character generator and the combat simulator and have been tinkering with it to better my understanding of how combat works, but there are still some things I do not quite understand.

1) In the simulator, when you make a swing attack, you choose the direction. I have looked through the RPG book and it has no rules bearing how you swing your weapon. Maybe I missed it, but I dunno. Does how you swing impact your attack?

2) In Chapter 3: Training, you can spend spiritual attributes to increase attributes, proficiencies, and so on. When you spend some of your spiritual attributes, you immediately reduce how many dice you have, right? It's kinda vague on how you spend them.

I think that is it so far. I appreciate if someone would answer my questions.

[Darren Hill]

Hello and welcome :)
I'll have a go at answering your questions - hopefully I haven't missed the ball.

1) In the simulator, when you make a swing attack, you choose the direction. I have looked through the RPG book and it has no rules bearing how you swing your weapon. Maybe I missed it, but I dunno. Does how you swing impact your attack?

If you look in the appendix, pages 234-251, you'll see a bunch of damage tables. (If you've donwloaded the combat program, I recommend downloading the damage tables program - this illustrates the following very well.)
Page 234 has a body diagram on it, with target zones on it - the zones I to VII are for swings, and VIII to XIV are for thrusts.
So let's say you attack zone V: that is an vertical swing down on the head. You refer to the relevant damage table, and roll a d6 to find exactly where you hit (in this case, it will be head, face, or shoulders).

Again, I recommend downloading the "TROS Damage Table program by Brian Leybourne"

There's also an optional rule on page 234 listing modifiers for targetting different zones (for example, -1 CP for thrusting at the face).

2) In Chapter 3: Training, you can spend spiritual attributes to increase attributes, proficiencies, and so on. When you spend some of your spiritual attributes, you immediately reduce how many dice you have, right? It's kinda vague on how you spend them.

I'm probably going into more detail than you need here :)
So let's say you have zero in three SAs (Spiritual Attributes), and currently have Luck and Destiny at 5.
You decide you desperately want to increase your AGL from 3 to 4.
According to the table, this costs 4 SA points, so you drop Luck and Destiny by 2 each to pay for it (you could distribute the cost differently if you wanted).
So, you now have only 3 luck points to call upon, and if your in a situation where your destiny applies, you only get 3 dice from it.
But it probably won't be too long before you earn a few more points, and you'll be able to buy new things.
In TROS, your character's SAs will regularly fluctuate, rising and falling, as you gain points and then spend them.

It doesn't specifically say when you get to spend these points - I assume you can only spend points at the end or start of a session (it's easier).

Darren

[Spartan]

It doesn't specifically say when you get to spend these points - I assume you can only spend points at the end or start of a session (it's easier).

You can spend them whenever you like, unless the GM houserules it otherwise. :)  I find the "instant gratification" works really well, and doesn't slow down play much.

-Mark

[Darren Hill]

You can spend them whenever you like, unless the GM houserules it otherwise. :)  I find the "instant gratification" works really well, and doesn't slow down play much.

-Mark

I know I can't trust a couple of my players to handle the book-keeping properly without supervision. (They won't cheat, they'll genuinely mess up the arithmetic, forget the insight bonus, apply the wrong cost - how they fill in a tax return I have no idea! :))
Also, the nitpicker in me worries about Luck. Two players have Luck 5. At the start of the session, A uses all 5 of his luck dice, then he buys something with luck. But B uses none of his luck, and suddenly realises he wants something and has to use his luck points to get it - and so has missed out on the opportunity to use his luck dice that session.
Not a big problem I admit (since players would probably try to find something worthwhile to burn their luck dice on before they spend the points).

[Lance D. Allen]

The reason that some Seneschals prefer the instant gratification method is for high payoff scenes. For example...

Jack is rescuing his girlfriend from the dungeons, but has to fight off a guard before he can get out. He throws his 3 dice from Passion: Love for girlfriend into the fight, thereby earning one or two more. We'll say that the fight is particularly good, so the Seneschal awards him two. Now he goes charging off with his girlfriend in tow, but finds out that a rival suitor is who had her imprisoned, and so challenges him. He would probably earn another point, but alas, he is at his cap of 5. On the other hand, if he's able to spend whenever he wishes to, he might decide that the guard he fought was quite good, and he learned a new technique before he killed him (or some other justification, if the Seneschal likes to require justification like I do) and wants to increase his weapon proficiency. He does so, spending down his Passion from it's max.. Now, when he challenges the rival suitor, he's lost some of his edge in the form of the SA dice, but gained some edge in the improvement of his proficiency, and is able to earn more.

Both styles have their advantages. Allowing improvement only during down-time in-game, or between sessions is much simpler and easier to manage, but instant gratification has the merits mentioned above.

[talath1221]

Thanks for answering. I look in the section of the book you suggested and downloaded the program, and that helped alot to understand.

I still feel like I am missing something, but I don't know. I just need to read more and get to know each of the maneuvers. And to read the combat chapter until it becomes second nature.

Thanks again. But I don't think this will be the first time I come on here to ask questions.

[Darren Hill]

I still feel like I am missing something, but I don't know.

Even with the program, it took a little while to get a feel for those locations, so you're not alone :)

[Darren Hill]

Thanks again. But I don't think this will be the first time I come on here to ask questions.

You're welcome. Ask away. I'm pretty knew here myself, and I have been known to ask the occasional question.

[Darren Hill]

Now he goes charging off with his girlfriend in tow, but finds out that a rival suitor is who had her imprisoned, and so challenges him. He would probably earn another point, but alas, he is at his cap of 5. <snip>
He [increases proficiency], spending down his Passion from it's max.. Now, when he challenges the rival suitor, he's lost some of his edge in the form of the SA dice, but gained some edge in the improvement of his proficiency, and is able to earn more.

I do find this idea appealing, but given my main groups proclivities for hopeless book-keeping it's not worth the effort to me. (Even keeping trach of Luck will be a major challenge for one player!)
I also suspect the situation described is something of an ideal that rarely happens as described.
I expect something more like:
Our hero is at his max in the SA, but knows he will use it in the upcoming challenge. But he has several other SAs which he doesn't expect to need, so he spends from them, keeping his SA 5 and improving his proficiency.
Okay, in the upcoming fight he might lose out on a 1-2 point award - but this is contingent on him being at 5 anyway (which is no guarantee, even after gaining a point or two for the earlier scene). Which is better, losing a point or two of an SA, or losing a die or two combat ability in a scene  nwhich you might die? I suspect players (mine, at least) will do everything in their power to keep that bonus.
And even if the SA is at 5, he could use just 1-2 points from that SA, and make up the rest of the cost elsewhere, and still buy the proficiency.

I haven't played like this, so it might work the way you described, but my gut feeling is that it would require fairly fast and loose SA awards, probably more frequently than I intend to give out (especially since our sessions are only 3 hours of gameplay).

[Jake Norwood]

You're welcome. Ask away. I'm pretty knew here myself, and I have been known to ask the occasional question.

Ha! Hoch! Hugh! ::cough cough:: Ha ha ha ah aha ha hah aha ahah !

Jake

[Lance D. Allen]

::pats Jake on the back:: Breathe, breathe!

I haven't played like this, so it might work the way you described, but my gut feeling is that it would require fairly fast and loose SA awards, probably more frequently than I intend to give out (especially since our sessions are only 3 hours of gameplay).

Neither, honestly, have I. For someone who's got two copies of the pre-release addition, one copy of the revised, and will have 3 submissions in the first supplement, I've not got much actual play experience with the system. It's been difficult to find players, unfortunately.

But I listen. The methods of play I described have been described by more than one person in the Actual Play folder, as well as here in the TRoS board. This style of play, often highly dramatic, fast-moving and quite deadly is part of the reason why TRoS has been dubbed a "Blood Opera" game.

[Darren Hill]

::pats Jake on the back:: Breathe, breathe!

Neither, honestly, have I. For someone who's got two copies of the pre-release addition, one copy of the revised, and will have 3 submissions in the first supplement, I've not got much actual play experience with the system. It's been difficult to find players, unfortunately.

And here I am, with today being my 1 week anniversary of owning the game, and I've already played twice. Not that I want cause you to stew in your misery or anything like that... ;)

But I listen. The methods of play I described have been described by more than one person in the Actual Play folder, as well as here in the TRoS board. This style of play, often highly dramatic, fast-moving and quite deadly is part of the reason why TRoS has been dubbed a "Blood Opera" game.

That description does seem to support the high SA awards concept that I want to avoid. Not that it's a bad thing, though.

[Jasper the Mimbo]

I use the on the fly SA reward and advancement system. In both of the games I run it has lent itself to a few very impressive moments. In one game one of my players playing a very combat oriented Ninja and was facing a Samurai with the rest of the party. The Samurai was carving him apart very slowly. Tward the end of the combat the Ninja has taken five differant wounds, had been bleeding severely for quite a while and was on the brink of death. Right before his Health dropped to one and he lost half of what little dice pool he had left he sold down every last SA he had to buy up his health by one point to keep fighting for one more round. In that round he struck the telling blow on the Samurai setting the bastard up to be struck down by another party member. He still bled out and died while everyone desperately tried to save him, the whole party spending SA points on surgery and first aid. If he hadn't been able to spend his spirituals on the fly the Samurai would have killed the whole party.

Cool game moments aside, as I understand it, Insight only counts tward SA's that have been spent already. Now, say I have a character with 20 total SA points that I plan on using to buy up a particularly high attribute or Proficiency. In a game where I can't spend on the fly, if I die before I spend them I'm out 20 points. In a game where I can advance as soon as I'm ready to, If I'm about to die I can spend those 20 points on something that will keep me alive and possably even drop an SA to pick up "Faith: I'm to cute to die with an axe in my face". If the fight is intense enough SA's may be rewarded before the danger has passed, and I now have an SA directly related to my immediate survival. Lets face it, my "Drive: Save the Whales" kind of falls by the wayside if I'm about to catch an axe with my face, and even if the axe comes down my next character will be 20 insight points cooler.

[Darren Hill]

Insight only counts tward SA's that have been spent already.

I planned to change this, to include the SAs you have when you die (or maybe half their value).

[arxhon]

I also use an "on the fly" system. It took some time for my players to get used to the idea of spending SA's immediately, rather than at the end of the session, so they were running around with maxed SA's in the middle of a scene where they should heve been getting more. Now that they understand a little better, threre's no more problem.

Additionally, i've managed to incorporate enough things going on that the characters are using 2 or even 3 SA's at once (that means piles o' dice and rapid advancement).

We're having a great time, and that is what is more important, not "are we using the SA's properly?"

Ron Edwards has a slightly different way of using them, and i'm sure Ashren Va'hale does, and the same with Bankuei and Wolfen. The same core idea, but slightly different ways and rates of awarding them. Like i said, the deal is whatever works for their games is whatever goes. :-)